Posted by Mike on February 14, 1998 at 23:43:20:
In Reply to: Re: The Burden of Proof posted by Mohamed Ghounem on February 14, 1998 at 10:37:10:
Mike: I have read through the arguments referred to above
M: have you?
M: They are not arguments, they are facts.
Mike: the reference you gave me is more than just a listing of facts. One of its argument can be structured as follows:
a. The Qur'an is a literary work written in a rich and complex form of Arabic
b. In the noble Qur'an we find a challenge from Allah to compose a literary work on a par with [it].
c. Since all such efforts have failed then let them accept the Koran as an outstanding evidential miracle [of God].
I will simple note again this is a classic example of circular reasoning. You are proving the Qur'an by the Qur'an. Therefore you have no good reason(s) to believe the Qur'an is the Word of God.
Mike: Therefore you have yet to prove your assertion.
M: I quote… 59:21-22;
Mike: You are still proving the Qur'an with the Qur'an. You are hopelessly caught in the vortex of circular reasoning :-(
Michael wrote;
But even if there are scientific facts in the Qur'an if one error is found then that error would refute the entire claim of divine inspiration for the Qur'an see: http://www.answering-islam.org/Science/index.html
M: I have and even little ole me proved the deceivers claims fake,
Mike: You have not presented a single argument against the points I have made above. Have you read the web locations I have given you see:http://www.answering-islam.org/Science/embryo.html, http://www.answering-islam.org/Science/index.html? I have read and provided a refutation of your reference.
Mike: I did not ask any questions in my post. It is simply that your circular arguments above are begging the question
M: Pardon my assumption.
Mike: Will you please provide an argument in support of your assumption :-(
Mike: How do you know Allah is the one true universal God?
M: The answer is in the Qur'an.
Mike: More circular reasoning. Mohamed please come to reason and receive Jesus Christ as your God.
Michael wrote;
Therefore, in any and all Muslim-Christian dialogues the Muslim most first prove their truth claims. This is a point you have dodged so far.
M: Reflect.
Mike: Mohamed this of great presuppositional import. Since you claim to worship the same God as I do and since I have shown that you have no reason to continue to believe that Allah is God. You are only left with Jesus as God.
Michael wrote;
This takes us to a larger question I would like to ask you, How do you know that Christians and Muslims worship the same God? Make your case.
M: http://www.debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/1022.html
Mike: I visited the web location above. You are simple trying to change the subject. Which mean that you know that Islam is indefensible and thus untrue.
M: Are the Jews and Christians united by some of the teachings in the Gospel (i.e. death of Jesus)? Or are they united by the Teachings that Jesus was Saved.?
Mike: the issue here is what evidence does Christianity have that shows that Christians worship the same God as the Jews? Firstly, we both begin with the same divinely inspired books. Moreover, the NT is linked to the OT in two very important ways. One may be called macro linkage and the other may be called micro linkage.
Macro linkage is how the NT is linked to the OT on a general level. Specifically, the NT is linked to the OT in three important ways. Historical, Theological and Ceremonial. This is shown in three books of the NT: Matthew, Romans and Hebrews. Matthew is the historical link to the Old Testament in that it shows that Jesus was the expected Messiah and the fulfillment of the prophecies. The book of Romans is the theological link to the OT in that it shows by argumentation that the God of Christianity is the same as the God worshipped in Judaism. The book of Hebrews is the ceremonial link to the OT by showing that the animal sacrifices of the OT simply foreshadowed the coming perfect, substitionary sacrifice of Jesus.
Micro linkage is how the NT is linked to the OT by way of specificity. In the book of Matthew alone there are 29 specific OT passages quoted. Also Matthew points to 14 OT prophecies fulfilled.
So now I ask you and all Muslims, what are the macro and micro linkages between the Qur'an and the NT? Specifically, what Suras are the historical, theological and ceremonial links to the NT? How many NT versus are quoted in the Qur'an?
Actually these are rhetorical questions, because as we all know the Qur'an contradicts the NT historically (it denies Jesse's crucifixion, theologically (it denies Jesus' deity) and Ceremonially (the Qur'an brings back animal sacrifices) and the Qur'an does not quote a single verse of the NT specifically.
So if Allah is the same God as the Christian God, he contradicts himself. Therefore, Allah cannot be God. Only Jesus can be your God and savior. Accept him now-please.
Peace and Blessings,
Your Brother in Christ-Michael