Posted by Mohamed Ghounem on February 19, 1998 at 20:30:32:
In Reply to: Re: The Burden of Proof posted by Mike on February 19, 1998 at 19:11:12:
Dear brother Mike,
Hello again, I will start where you do;
Mike: In logic, as well as in law historical precedent means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been accepted. That which is already recognized as truth judges any and all new claims to truth. Since Islam follows Christianity, the burden of proof rests upon the Muslim to first prove, to the Christian, the truth claims of Islam such as Allah is God, the Qur'an is the Word of God etc…
Mohamed responds:
well, you use "answering Islam" to make false claims against Islam, which is not an act of a Christian, so I gues that makes you too a Non-Christian, are liars Christians?, since you use a liars refrence then that makes you a Non-Christian also.
if you want your answers then explore "answering Christianity"
http://members.aol.com/IslamTeam/ac.htm
now we have answering Christianity and answering Islam, you believe in one and I believe in the other, the difference between us is that I am not predjudice like you. I am willing to answer questions of a Christian, but you are also not a Christian because you are biost.
You tell me you will only answer my questions towards Christiantiy only if I reject Islam, you only discuss Christianity with non-Muslims?
I really did go through your sites, believe it or not, as I have shown you that I speak to the author, yet maybe you don't believe me because I am Muslim?
Mike wrote;
Mohamed do you accept the burden of proof? If not why not? Until you answer the above contention all of your attempts to change the subject to the Bible only serves to demonstrate the utter absence of truth behind the claims of Islam. Once you open your mind and accept the reality that Islam is not true, I will do all I can to answer your questions and concerns about the Bible and Christianity.
Mohamed responds:
You are the phoniest Christian I have ever met and I have met a bunch, if you do not want to answer my questions than don't because Priests can't answer them either nor your sites which I visited, and obviosly niether can you.
I am a Muslim and I look forward to answer any questions you have towards Islam or even Christianity since you clearly show that you Are Not a Christian, or are simply portraying Christians to be predjudice people.
As a Muslims, I will answer questions of non-Muslim, will you answer questions of Muslims? have you been raised this way, do you think your kind is better than others?
Mohamed: Answer these tensions/discrepancies according to your web sites "Was the tomb open when they arrived? Matthew 28:2
"No" Mark 16:4 "Yes" Luke 24:2 "Yes" John 20:1 "Yes"and Did Jesus stay on earth for a while? Mark: "No" (16:19)
Compare 16:14 with John 20:19 to show that this was "all done on Sunday" Luke: "No" (24:50-52) "It all happened on
Sunday" John: Yes, at least eight days (20:26, 21:1-22) Acts: "Yes, at least forty days" (1:3)
Mike: Your "tensions" listed above can be easily resolved by reading the Gospels chapters in question (or books) in their entirety. So Mohamed I challenge you to read the Gospel chapters in question and discuss them with someone. Of course we are assuming you would do so with an open mind which assumes you no longer believe Islam is true.
Mohamed responds:
I have looked up the above tensions in context and confirmed that they are tensions unless you can prove otherwise??
Muslims believe in the Gospel of Jeus, not the Gospel of anyone accept Jesus, Muslims are told to research everything, do you, or is it only non-Muslim resourses you rely on?
Mike: I will not believe your assertions that you have in fact explored the cites I listed until you provide proof like I have when I explored your references. For example, I cut and paste portions of your cite locations and I have directly addressed and even spelled out to you the arguments your reference uses.
Mohamed responds:
believe what you want, its your free choice non-Christian, just as proof that I have visited your refrences, I even quote them, here:
http://debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/966.html
the above is writen even before I responded to your initial post, I wonder if you are so predjudice that you will still think that I am not telling the Truth, thererfore only believing the liars over those who tell you the Truth.
Mike: If you approached this with an open mind you would no longer consider yourself a Muslim. I ask you, what good reasons do you have to continue to believe that Islam is true?
Mohamed responds:
People like you, non-Christians who don't know anything about Islam or Christianity and biost.
Mike: I challenge you again to answer the Islamic dilemma: Since Muslim claim that Allah is the same God as the Christian God whose word cannot be corrupted and since the Qur'an and the NT contradict each other on the historical fact of Jesus' crucifixion, Allah contradicts himself. Therefore, Allah cannot be God.
Mohamed: a wonderful new poster here has answered this very nicely, the Qur'an does not contradict the Old Testament:
http://debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/1053.html
Mike: Mohamed you have committed another logical fallacy called the red herring. You are bringing into the discussion issues that are not relevant to the dilemma I posted above. The "tension" for you is that the Qur'an contradicts the Bible (which it immediately follows) thus Allah contradicts himself. Therefore He cannot be God. The issue of the relationship between the Qur'an and the Old Testament is irrelevant.
Mohamed responds:
1.You have proven you have not read the suggested site, therefore you are a liar/non-Christian, Fore if you read the site, you would see it quotes the NT and the OT together, not Just the OT as you falsely guess.
2. You have proven that you do not know Religion because the OT came before the NT and therefore the Qur'an is confirming the OT and Jesus.
If the Qur'an confirms the OT according to your burden of proof theory, then the Gospel/NT is fake, because the NT came after the OT, followed the OT.
The Qur'an is compatable to the OT, what is the Gospel compatable to?
I have proven that the Qur'an is the same Creator as the Creator in the OT, you upon my Muslim request have not shown me the slightest proof that you are a Christian and have not shown me a single shred of evidence as to why you should even consider being a Christian, the Gospel is tampered with.
According to your claims, the NT and the OT have a different messages therefore the Christian God is a False God, you are worshiping a peice of wood, in your church, you are worshipping statues, false idols.
The OT incase you don't know, is half of the Bible, read it, act as a Christian before discussings your fake God with me.
Keep your predjudices opinions to yourself, you have extremely embarassed yourself here, only showing me you are not a Christian, you lie and claim you read my refrences but you've proved you haven't and last but not least, you did not even know that the OT is half of the Bible.
In summuray, The Qur'an does not contradict the Bible:
http://debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/1053.html
and your questions are answered at "answering Christianity"
http://members.aol.com/IslamTeam/ac.htm
and last and least, you are not a Christian, real Christians don't lie and are not Predjudice.
Mike: Let us not forget that have yet to answer any of my logical objections against your defense of what you still believe. Mohamed it is clear beyond all-reasonable doubt that you do not have any good reason to continue to believe that Allah is God or that the Qur'an is the Word of God. I pray that you will come to reason and open your heart and mind to the loving truth that Jesus is God :-)
Mohamed responds:
I believe in the teachings of Jesus, do you? does Jesus teach to lie and only answer questions of certain people and not others?
Your a fake Christian, repent your sins to Allah
Peace and Blessings,
Your Brother in Islam: Mohamed