Posted by Mohamed Ghounem on February 21, 1998 at 17:15:14:
In Reply to: Re: Unity against Against Satan (i.e. Materialism) posted by Jonathan on February 21, 1998 at 15:01:54:
Dear Brother Jonathan, Hi
The Qur'an is humanities guide.
If Paul or John preach something that goes against reality (i.e. Jesus is God, Jesus died for sins) then this is "False", if they Preach that humans should unite, this is logically True.
I am not under any auority to say what is right or wrong, I only (in peace) shed the light of the Qur'an on the false notions that have crept into the Bible over the centuries, the Qur'an has been unchanged for over 1,400 years.
The Qur'an does not contradict the central message of the Old Testament which is that there is One Creator without partners.
The Jewish scribes (why you ask) due to vanity, changed the name Ishmael into Isaac. This does not change the message of a Supreme without partners.
The Qur'an does not contradict the OT, it only removes the tampering:
http://debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/1084.html
"That He might justify Truth and prove Falsehood false, distasteful though it be to those in guilt." Qur'an 8:8
The same goes for the Gospel, the notion that Jesus is God had crept into the Gospel and that God is three, these notions as noted above, divide humanity, the Qur'an removes these false notions, therefore as history shows, uniting humanity, yestaurday is gone brother Jonathan, you can not change it, therefore learn from it.
"He sends down water from the cloud, then watercourses flow (with water) according to their measure, and the torrent bears along the swelling foam, and from what they melt in the fire for the sake of making ornaments or apparatus arises a scum like it; thus does Allah compare truth and falsehood; then as for the scum, it passes away as a worthless thing; and as for that which profits the people, it tarries in the earth; thus does Allah set forth parables." Qur'an 13:17
{I thought you said that you thought John was a corrupted text.}
{I thought you said that Paul was a false teacher.}
Those that preach that God was a man and Those that preach against works are false teachers according to the Old Testament.
http://debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/1078.html
and
http://debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/1082.html
Those that preach Unity are not false teachers, you are right brother Jonathan, that does sound inconsistant.
Although am I inconsistant or is their message once again inconsistant?
"Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us)." Qur'an 21:18
Is Unity so bad to you brother Jonathan that even as I quote it from the Bible, from your favorite twosome (John and Paul), even they preach it and you reject it because you would rather hold on the false anti-unity, anti-Old Testament message that God was a man and we no longer follow works.
Historically and Morally in your heart, what is right? Holding hands with fellow Humans, fellow God's Creations, Uniteing or another Christian/Jewish Holucost?
Your heart knows the answer, Unity is here, the Qur'an is here.
"I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 17:23
"Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. Ephesians 4:3
"Also in Judah the hand of God was on the people to give them unity of mind to carry out what the king and his officials had ordered, following the word of the LORD. 2 Chronicles 30:12
"How good and pleasant it is when brothers live together in unity! Psalms 133:1
"May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, Romans 15:5
"And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:14
Inconclusion, not to change the subject, but is Paul and John historically inconsistant?
History shows that when Paul preached that Jesus died for sins and we no longer have to follow the Law, History shows that this divided Religion into Jews, Christians and Muslims, and yet at the same time, Paul preaches Unity?
When John preached that Jesus is God, this again divided the Believers of God into three groups. (We are still discussing the validity of John) at the same time, John writes "Unity"
History shows they are both inconsistant, Am I inconsistant because I quote things they say inconsistantly, Prehaps, although I am no judge or expert, although I am openminded and accept Straight Truth:
"Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful." Qur'an 39:3
And would rather see people United, bowing in unison and peace to one Divine Supreme Maker, You?
Peace and Blessings,
Your Brother in Islam: Mohamed