Posted by Zaphod on December 31, 1997 at 19:18:02:
In Reply to: Re: Has Allah Removed the Curse of Babylon posted by Mohamed Ghounem on December 31, 1997 at 03:48:09:
: Dear Zaphod, what is the story of Babylon?, it is simple, every one spoke one language, God "punished" them for disobeying.
Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do..
Zaphod - It seems to me from the above that when all the people had one language this was in fact part of the problem and the reason why God did what he did.
: Is this punishent to be eternal brother Zaphod, according to Christianity, did't Jesus die for "everyone's" sins, why then do Christians speak different languages and not one common language like Muslims.
Zaphod - See above
: Isn't the curse of Babylon a punishment that "Christianity Jesus" can remove, or is it that only God can remove the Curse as was done with the arival of the Koran, the Final Testament.
Zaphod - Christians see Jesus as the means for Salvation
: You ask where does it say that God would like us to reunite in one language again?, it is all through the Bible Brother Zaphod, "The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him;{Daniel 9:9} You see, God loves. To keep us from understanding our companions eternally would be spiteful and unforgiving which God certainly isn't.
On the contrary - God is forgiving by giving us different languages so we do not become like the Babylonians. There is nothing to keep us from understanding our companions at all. Language is a barrier that can be overcome.
: This is just one of the miracals of the Koran, from God, it has removed the centuries old Curse of Babylon for those who accept Truth: The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out. {Proverbs 18:15}. If you follow the Bible, it will lead you to the Koran as it has for millions, it is a free choice, it is there for those who seek it.
Zaphod - For you maybe, but for me following the Koran led me to the Bible.
: {Perhaps one could argue that as English is the internationally accepted language we should speak that, but somehow I think you would not agree!}
: Many Muslims speak English too, atleast the ones I know, Engish though is a monitary language, it's accociations are money, not religion as the sematic languages (Arabic). What does the Bible think about money " He that hath an evil eye hasteth after wealth, and knoweth not that poverty shall come upon him. {Proverbs 28:22}
Zaphod - Just where you draw these conclusions beats me! How is it that ENGLISH is a monetary language? How did you relate Proverbs 28:22 to English?
: {I find it absolutely amazing that you have given yourself judgement power over my own claims to have once been a Muslim.}
: Again, I am going by what you write, for example, if I claimed to have been a Christian and then asked, why don't Christians follow the teachings of Paul, this would reveal that I was not previously a Christian, or prehaps I breifly declared Christ as a Savior only to quickly renounce it (because of a bad experience or something) without at all reading the teachings of Christianity.
Zaphod - Well I know Muslims who drink alcohol and Muslim countries that manufacture acohol, this then according to you, means these people are not Muslims, but they would disagree with you. They have a different interpretation that is all.
: {You are right in one respect that I have proven to MYSELF that I should NOT be a Muslim and that is why I renounced it as the religion of Satan.}
: Kindly show me where in the teaching of Islam that Muslims are told to worship the Devil (Allah Forgive), this is the third time in what I have seen in your writings that you declare this, you must then atleast have some scripture to support this claim. If you want to see what the Bible says, about worshiping the Devil.
Zaphod - I renounce Islam as the religion of Satan (which is not the same as saying you worship the Devil) because it draws you away from Christ, which is Satans work. There is no forgiveness in Islam only punishment. Muhammad himself declared the punishment for theft to be dismemberment, even though (in one case) the person accusing the other of theft was forgiving Muhammed wasn't. The law still applies today, but it is conveniently not used much as that is one of the 'not so nice things' about Islam. I forget the exact Hadith that reports it, but I think it is Bukhari Vol 5.
: {I fail to see that tensions are as a result of the Bible in different languages. If the Bible was only in one language it would still have differences with the Koran. Translation does not take away the disagreement.}
: The Koran does agree with the original teachings of Jesus, as the Koran is the Final Testament.
Zaphod - And just what are the 'original' teachings of Jesus? Is it not the one referred to in the Koran as the 'Book' sent down before it. Your problem is that you claim the bible to be corrupt, but you are only measuring it against the Koran, a book who's only authority is Muhammed. A book he could not read to verify was written correctly as noted by his followers.
{Let me ask you this question - do the arabs speak exactly the same language today as the Koran is written?}
: German, Engilish, Spanish, Urdu, Chinese, all Muslims recite and read the Koran in the Same Language.
Zaphod - The question still stands, you have not answered it. I did not ask if they recite the Koran in the same language.
The segragation I am refering to is skin color amoung churches (are there not white churches and black churches) and diferent practices amoung churches, as some do not baptize etc...
: For all Muslims no matter wealth, color, or origin to face east as the Prophet did and with Allah in heart, bow to give thanks and ask for guidance, same language, same direction, same submission, I do not see the segragation because of time zones, you are write again that they are not all at the same time but as the sun shines on them at different times, when it is morning for them in one country, they do the same as the morning for their Muslim brother or sister in a different country, as the earth circles the sun, the prayers are made, as the sun warms the land our prayers warm our hearts, as we sleep, another Muslim is being warmed by the sun and prayer, Allah in heart, sun on shoulders, content.
Zaphod - Most of this would also apply to Christians too, but the language from the heart as opposed to the spoken is what is considered important. Incidentally facing East in Alaska or New Zealand will not face you towards Mecca. Did not the Muslims once face Jerusalem? There are Churches I am sure that the majority of the congregation is black or white and even, but I do not think this is segregation. Any Christian (or anybody) is welcome in any Church otherwise it is not a Church.
: {Keep going Mohammed - the more I read your posts the stronger my faith becomes.}
: Thank you, if I can bring you closer to the belief in our Creator then it is by the Grace of Allah, my deep apologies for any mistakes I may have made and may Allah forgive us. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Zaphod - Yes you (and others) are strengthening my faith, but in the Christian sense, which I know is not agreeable to you. You are fortunate that you can spend so much time on this website, I would like the time to respond to everything you write, as it does anger me that you concentrate on attacking Christianity instead of spreading your own faith. Many of your posts force me to read the Bible more at which point my emotions are calmed, by the holy spirit.
Zaphod