Posted by Mohamed Ghounem on February 11, 1998 at 00:00:58:
In Reply to: Re: in response to Jochen posted by Jochen Katz on February 10, 1998 at 18:04:59:
Dear Brother Jochen,
Again I am honored by your response;
{You have a rather unique style of appearing friendly while insulting others.}
Thank you, just to let you know, I respect you very much, integrity or not.
now enough of the mooshy mooshy, let me continue to show your lack of integrity :-)
I wrote:
: : I thought you knew better then to ask for that. Do you not recall our recent
: : debate on the location of the moon.
: : http://www.debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/605.html
: : Purposfully lieing and twisting words of our Creator, is this what you call integrity?
You wrote;
{I did not purposefully lie. I was wrong in a few formulations and I acknowledged that. Erring is not the same as lying. I did not purposefully deceive.}
I am about to prove you are a liar, take it lightly as it is not meant to attack or anything except to get you back on the right path which is what Juan is suggesting.
In the above moon issue, there are about 10 (give or take) verses in the Islamic writing that give the location of the moon.
9 out of the 10 verses say that the moon is at the lowest heaven, and one verse does not give a specific location.
You expect a reader to believe you did not intensionally twist words around by taking "that one" verse out of the 10 verses that does not give location and changing the word _midst_ into _middle_
You claim in the above link that you were confused because according to _complete_data_ it is not clear where the moon is. 9 out of 10 verses tell you where the moon is, but according to you, you unintensionally picked the one verse that does not say specifically where the moon is and also claim complete data does not give location, thinking the reader won't research.
Let me give you another brief similar example on how you decieve/lie;
You write on your site; http://www.math.gatech.edu/~jkatz/Islam/Quran/Contra/i004d.html#angel_wings
Sura 35:1 says that angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings. This is contradicted by a hadith which says that Gabriel had 600 wings. This is narrated by Abu Ishaq-Ash-Shaibani, see Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455
You decieve/lie to the reader by not giving the complete quote of the verse:
"All praise is due to Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, the Maker of the angels, messengers flying on wings, two, and three, and four; He increases in creation what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things." 35:1
The very same verse that you lie and say it is a contradiction, you _cut out_ the part of the verse that says "...He increases in creation what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things."
maybe with the moon issue, you missed the 9 out of ten verses, but how can you miss what it says in the very same verse on Angel's wings, unless you are not Christian, only one lost in the maze of error, decieveing your self more than anyone else.
If there are mistakes that you would like to correct, then in your site 'difficulties in the Qur'an' you can correct the first mistake by saying "difficulties in the _translation_ of the Qur'an". Or is decievement more your style?
You wrote;
{If you find no forgiveness for me because I made an error, what kind of a person are you?}
bad bad according to you :-) error is one thing brother Jochen, lieing is another, there are many lies on your site, so if the above two are not enough, let me know, I will expose more.
{And how many postings on this board do you think I could point out where you made errors.}
intensional?
: : {Where please do I stereo-type? All the time general accusations
: : without any evidence. I am so tired of it.}
: : Then sit back and relax, your site http://answering-islam.org/hottopic.html
: : You label almost 1.5 Billion children, men, and women as Molestors,
: : Rapists, and Murderers, is this what you call integrity?
{First of all, none of the material on that page is written by me.}
It is directly on your site, therefore it is slander with your name on it.
{Second of all, no link on that page says what you claim it says. Why are you lying?}
Well, well, well, let's start with the quotes; "The Persecution of Christians in the Islamic World" here you are suggesting that the Islamic world Persecutes Christians (stereotyping), let's see what type of persecution the "Islamic _World_ does to Christians" according your _site_ .
1.Muslim militants kill 10 Christians http://www.domini.org/openbook/cop70214.htm
2.a high Muslim official. This man, her father, molested Seema when she was five http://answering-islam.org/Marriage/warnings.html
So your site doen't call Muslims murderers and molestors or am I the liar?
Do you do the same when refering to Hitler? do you refer to him as a Christian?
{ http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Harbinger/harbinger14.htm
Here is a Muslim who acknowledges the atrocities happening. And he speaks mostly about Egypt, the country you claimed a few days ago all is so wonderfully harmoneous between Muslims and Christians.}
You never lived in Egypt, the link refers to the New York Times as a source of info, Western one sided media. Second is that the link refers to the last 10 years, about few dozen Christians were killed, thats a drop in comparison to Christians killing Christians in the West. Third, what is the credentials of the link that is entitled "we are not murderers" and 3/4 of the link lists the names and bio. of the victims of murderers, Forth, that site is from Irland, not the Middle East.
That site gives one quote from the Qur'an and then goes on labeling Muslims as murderers and goes in detail about who the victims were, this is logically not a pro-Islam and does not get it's info on Egypt from Egypt, only Western media as they admit.
The Law in Islam is to live in Peace with Christians if they live in Peace with you, this has been the case for centuries and that is how Egypt is now.
Peace and Blessings,
Your Brother in Islam: Mohamed