Posted by Malakh on February 12, 1998 at 04:58:42:
In Reply to: Re: in response to Jochen posted by Mohamed Ghounem on February 11, 1998 at 14:11:59:
>The question is who was sacraficed, who was Abrahams "only begotten son" when Abraham was 99?
Ah, Mohammed..
Easily answered -
Ishmael was cast out with Hagar because Hagar was causing trouble in the camp - wanting to have
rights beyond that of a slave girl because she bore Abraham a son.
Genesis 21:9-14
9 But Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, playing with her son Isaac.
10 So she said to Abraham, "Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this slave woman shall not
be heir with my son Isaac."
11 And the thing was very displeasing to Abraham on account of his son.
12 But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman;
whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named.
13 And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring."
14 So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, and gave it to Hagar, putting it
on her shoulder, along with the child, and sent her away. And she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of
Beer-sheba.
Hebrews 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises
offered up his only begotten son,"
And he said, take your son - Not bullocks or lambs; how willingly would Abraham have parted with
them by thousands to redeem Isaac! Not servant, no, not the steward of his house. His only son -
only son by Sarah, his legal wife. Ishmael was lately cast out, and that meant he was written off by
Abraham, to the grief of Abraham, and now Isaac only was left and must he go too? Yes, indeed.
There are whole commentaries on how Sarai caused Abraham to sin in Gods eyes by asking him to have
a child with Hagar.
Ge 16:1-6
1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name [was]
Hagar.
2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in
unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of
Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was
despised in her eyes.
5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she
saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai
dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.
(a) It seems that she had respect for God's promise, which could not be accomplished without issue.
(b) She fails by limiting God's power to the common order of nature, as though God could not give her
children in her old age.
(c) This punishment declares what they gain if they attempt any thing against the word of God.
But back to the point I was trying to make before.....this is about putting your Faith in God -.
Now to conclude, and you opened yourself up for this one through out your post> since Jesus objected to be sacraficed, according to your above criterea for faith, is this clearly showing that Jesus lacked the "Faith"
(Ofcourse not!) that Abraham and Abraham's son had with our Creator OR is the crusifixtion clearly not Jesus and
only appeared to be.
Whoa.......back up there....Never do I say Jesus lacked that faith.....where do you get that impression?
Luke 22:37 For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, 'And he was reckoned with transgressors'; for
what is written about me has its fulfilment."
I'd like to move this to a new thread called Jesus Christs Faith, look for my discussion on this there!