Posted by Mohamed Ghounem on February 11, 1998 at 14:11:59:
In Reply to: Re: in response to Jochen posted by Malakh on February 11, 1998 at 07:27:53:
Dear Brother Malakh,
Howdeado
{Hiya Mohamed, well, still travelling and working - nothing like a bad phone connection in a hotel when youre trying to catch up}
I had 3 weeks of next to nothing connection on my vacation, I thought I was going to go into withdrawl :-)
{I see no difference in the two versions you displayed here.....We are talking about Faith here}
I agree that they are wonderful examples of Faith, a Father sacraficeing his son and niether one of them objecting is true submission to the will of Allah.
The question is who was sacraficed, who was Abrahams "only begotten son" when Abraham was 99?
If the answer is Ishmael as we both know it, does that not take away from the Jews ego which gives them motive to change Ishmael into Isaac? Which in consiquence changes some of the prophcies which inreturn changes the message?
You wrote;
{By faith, Abraham was ready to sacrifice his only son . We are often called to leave worldly connections, interests, and comforts. If heirs of Abraham's faith, we shall obey and go forth, though not knowing what may befall us; and we shall be found in the way of duty, looking for the performance of God's promises. The trial of Abraham's faith was, that he simply and fully obeyed the call of God.
The greatest trial and act of faith upon record is, Abraham's offering up Isaac, (Genesis 22:2 - Old Testament I might add) . There, every word shows a trial. It is our duty to reason down our doubts and fears, by looking, as Abraham did, to the Almighty power of God. The best wayto enjoy our comforts is, to give them up to God; he will then again give them as shall be the best for us. Let us look how far our faith has caused the like obedience, when we have been called to lesser acts of self-denial, or to make smaller sacrifices to our duty. Have we given up what was called for, fully believing that the Lord would make up all our losses, and even bless us by the most afflicting dispensations?
If youve ever felt the 'calling' to do something on trusting God alone, you know what this is talking about. In complete submission, we seek God's will prayerfully and confirm His 'calling' (the Holy Spirit communicates Gods will to our spirit) through the several ways, the Scriptures being one of those ways. (To insure that it IS God speaking to us -another topic all on its own - knowing Gods Will in our live).}
I agree completely with everything you said except it was Ishmael not Isaac and as far as Holy Spirit, I prefer "Spirit of Truth".
Now to conclude, and you opened yourself up for this one through out your post> since Jesus objected to be sacraficed, according to your above criterea for faith, is this clearly showing that Jesus lacked the "Faith" (Ofcourse not!) that Abraham and Abraham's son had with our Creator OR is the crusifixtion clearly not Jesus and only appeared to be.
The TRUE identification to distinguish who was sacraficed is as you clarified above, their devotion/submission.
If they are Truely One with Allah as Abraham and Abraham's son, then they would not object to a will of Allah. According to these basic, logical standards to "identify" a true believer in Allah, then Jesus at the time of the sacrafice does not match the identification check, Agreed?
Peace and Blessings,
Your Brother in Islam: Mohamed