Posted by Zaphod on November 07, 1997 at 16:19:44:
In Reply to: Re: Jesus Is a Muslim posted by Mustafa ASLAN on November 03, 1997 at 09:37:59:
Here we go again - More circular arguments. Let me make this as simple as I possibly can. Even though Abraham was the founder of your religion he is also considered the patriarch of the Jewish and Christian religions, he is not exclusive to Islam, he is not called a Muslim in any of the holy scriptures pertaining to these religions. You said you CONSIDER all people and prophets of the books Muslim up to the prophet Muhammad. I am a Christian, and therefore a person you describe as a 'person of the books' I am not a MUSLIM nor do I wish to be called one, but you can certainly CONSIDER me one if you like. To reiterate Jesus was a JEW according to Christians based on the Biblical account. He is not called a MUSLIM by the Bible or any of his disciples because of this. Once again, you may consider the prophets MUSLIM with no contradiction since it is a CLAIM and not based on any pre-Muhamad era scripture. The Bible on the other hand most definitely foretold Jesus as a JEW (in the religious and nationality sense) not a MUSLIM. It will not do you any good to refer to Jesus as a Muslim to a Christian, as it is just not acceptable.
For the errors in the Koran, (since you asked) please look up the reference material by M. Rafiqul-Haqq and P. Newton. It is available on the internet at, http://debate.domini.org/newton/grammar.html.
No I do not accept the Koran as the truth, yet you still throw out all the references and excerpts!
You said "we do not say it is corrupted (The Gospel) that is why we don't believe it" That is EXACTLY what you did say - read your own post! I asked what Gospel it was Muslims believed in, since the Koran refers to the Gospel that preceeded it, and it would seem silly to refer to a Gospel (that was already cannonised) to be corrupt. Please do not come back with the line Allah has chosen me to be blind, it is an all too familiar Muslim 'cop out' as far as I am concerned.
You then go on to say that I must not say "that I have lived in Islamic countries and know plenty" etc. etc, because that does not mean I know Islam. Excuse me! - did I say I KNOW Islam (in the complete sense as you imply). I said I knew plenty and still maintain that, and I am free to say that. Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot say? As far as I am aware the only protocol to follow, is not to use abusive language, other than that I am free to express my thoughts.
What is it you may be afraid of? Is it that I may reveal such things as the bizzarre 'Black Blood' extraction ceremony I was subjected to? This apparently was taken from instructions in the Koran and Hadith, but I have yet to find them. I have been deep into Islam and came out a survivor thank God. I embraced Islam, only to be strangled by it, in return. I count myself very fortunate that I was able to reject it, based on my own personal experiences, while I was subjected to continual Islamic influence. I still am, since part of my family is Muslim, but they at least have come to respect that I do not accept it.
Good Bye