Re: Has Allah Removed the Curse of Babylon

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Posted by Mohamed Ghounem on January 02, 1998 at 06:29:04:

In Reply to: Re: Has Allah Removed the Curse of Babylon posted by Malakh on January 01, 1998 at 09:26:24:

Dear Brother Malakh,
I am honored by your response,
I will start where you do;

{You suggested a translation by Yusafali - why do you feel he has a more authoritative answer over Pickthall and Shakir?}

The Yusuf Ali translation is the only one I have besides the one from the Azhar I mentioned. I have seen Pickthall's translation and I do not recall if it offers explainations like Yusuf Ali and I do not recall the details of Shakir's translation.

Yusuf Ali from what I have heard and seen is the most popular translation, I do not judge one over the other, ofcourse only the original in Arabic is accepted as the Koran. The translations may have rough edges, they can be easily ironed out by refering to other translations (i.e. Al Montakab) "which by the way does not even use the word face" and if you are still not satisfied then an Arabic/English Dictionary will explain in detail.

I have asked and it was clarified that the word wajh (face) is not meant in a literal sense as in eyes, nose, mouth, etc...It is meant as a discription of a person's being, insides, i.e. heart or soul or both.

The word face (wajh) can mean different things like the word type can mean to write something or it can mean a catigory or discription.

as we see it depends on the context it is used, if we take Y.P.& S., and see how they use the word again in a different verse.

55.27
YUSUFALI: But will abide (for ever) the Face of thy Lord,- full of Majesty, Bounty and Honour.
PICKTHAL: There remaineth but the Countenance of thy Lord of Might and Glory.
SHAKIR: And there will endure for ever the person of your Lord, the Lord of glory and honor.

We see the word (Wajh) is meant as: 1. face. 2.countenance. 3. Person.

Now that we see there are different meanings of the word (wajh) In the verse in question as Yusuf Ali and the Al Montakab explain, it is meant a person's countenances,

{If I go with the Yusufali translation, I would stick to that one entirely - is that what you follow?}

Only the original in Arabic is 100% Allah's words, Yusuf Ali, does his best to translate one word from one language into another.

{I dont like to pick and choose the best bits between translations. Though from my perspective, it is interesting to see how the different interpretations come about.}

When in doubt, get the Dictionary :-)

Inconclusion, Allah teaches equality:

4.135
"O you who believe! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of Allah's sake, though it may be against your
own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, Allah is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do
not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do."

Judge people equally, even to your self.

4.95
"Those of the believers who sit still, other than those who have a (disabling) hurt, are not on an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives. Allah hath conferred on those who strive with their wealth and lives a rank above the sedentary. Unto each Allah hath promised good, but He hath bestowed on those who strive a great reward above the sedentary;"

Only difference between believers are those who are active in the cause of Allah or those who do nothing, just believe.

2.179
"In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves. "

One thing I would like to add since you mentioned Lois Farakon in your previous post, He is not a Muslim.

There is Major diferences between Farkonism and Islam, Muslims believe in equality he believes in Black supereiority, on several occations Minister Farakon has said he will revert to the true teachings of Islam and as far as I know, it hasn't happened yet.

That is why Malcolm X left "The Nation of Islam" which is often confused with "Islam" They are two different groups and beliefs.

"nation of Islam" believes in black supersiority and does not follow the teacings of the Koran but rather the teachings of Elija Muhammad, and do not consider the Prophet Muhammad to be the last Prophet.

Major differences between the two which clearly distinct the group "Nation of Islam" as non-Muslims.

http://www.muslim.net/islam/iandf.html Why Louis Farakon is not a Muslim

When Malcolm X went to Saudi Arabia and saw the true Islam and realized that Islam is about equality between all dispite color money background, then Malcolm X left the 'Nation of Islam' and opened up a Mosque to practice true Islam, where white and black were equally welcomed.

http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/about/convert/20.htm

when Malcom X went to Mecca, and realized people of all color were equal, he left the 'nation of Islam' to be a real Muslim.

Peace and Blessings,
Your Brother in Islam: Mohamed

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Re: Has Allah Removed the Curse of Babylon Malakh 1/02/98 (0)

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Subject : Re: Re: Has Allah Removed the Curse of Babylon

Comments:
: Dear Brother Malakh,
: I am honored by your response,
: I will start where you do;

: {You suggested a translation by Yusafali - why do you feel he has a more authoritative answer over Pickthall and Shakir?}

: The Yusuf Ali translation is the only one I have besides the one from the Azhar I mentioned. I have seen Pickthall's translation and I do not recall if it offers explainations like Yusuf Ali and I do not recall the details of Shakir's translation.

: Yusuf Ali from what I have heard and seen is the most popular translation, I do not judge one over the other, ofcourse only the original in Arabic is accepted as the Koran. The translations may have rough edges, they can be easily ironed out by refering to other translations (i.e. Al Montakab) "which by the way does not even use the word face" and if you are still not satisfied then an Arabic/English Dictionary will explain in detail.

: I have asked and it was clarified that the word wajh (face) is not meant in a literal sense as in eyes, nose, mouth, etc...It is meant as a discription of a person's being, insides, i.e. heart or soul or both.

: The word face (wajh) can mean different things like the word type can mean to write something or it can mean a catigory or discription.

: as we see it depends on the context it is used, if we take Y.P.& S., and see how they use the word again in a different verse.

: 55.27
: YUSUFALI: But will abide (for ever) the Face of thy Lord,- full of Majesty, Bounty and Honour.
: PICKTHAL: There remaineth but the Countenance of thy Lord of Might and Glory.
: SHAKIR: And there will endure for ever the person of your Lord, the Lord of glory and honor.

: We see the word (Wajh) is meant as: 1. face. 2.countenance. 3. Person.

: Now that we see there are different meanings of the word (wajh) In the verse in question as Yusuf Ali and the Al Montakab explain, it is meant a person's countenances,

: {If I go with the Yusufali translation, I would stick to that one entirely - is that what you follow?}

: Only the original in Arabic is 100% Allah's words, Yusuf Ali, does his best to translate one word from one language into another.

: {I dont like to pick and choose the best bits between translations. Though from my perspective, it is interesting to see how the different interpretations come about.}

: When in doubt, get the Dictionary :-)

: Inconclusion, Allah teaches equality:

: 4.135
: "O you who believe! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of Allah's sake, though it may be against your
: own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, Allah is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do
: not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do."

: Judge people equally, even to your self.

: 4.95
: "Those of the believers who sit still, other than those who have a (disabling) hurt, are not on an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives. Allah hath conferred on those who strive with their wealth and lives a rank above the sedentary. Unto each Allah hath promised good, but He hath bestowed on those who strive a great reward above the sedentary;"

: Only difference between believers are those who are active in the cause of Allah or those who do nothing, just believe.

: 2.179
: "In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves. "

: One thing I would like to add since you mentioned Lois Farakon in your previous post, He is not a Muslim.

: There is Major diferences between Farkonism and Islam, Muslims believe in equality he believes in Black supereiority, on several occations Minister Farakon has said he will revert to the true teachings of Islam and as far as I know, it hasn't happened yet.

: That is why Malcolm X left "The Nation of Islam" which is often confused with "Islam" They are two different groups and beliefs.

: "nation of Islam" believes in black supersiority and does not follow the teacings of the Koran but rather the teachings of Elija Muhammad, and do not consider the Prophet Muhammad to be the last Prophet.

: Major differences between the two which clearly distinct the group "Nation of Islam" as non-Muslims.

: http://www.muslim.net/islam/iandf.html Why Louis Farakon is not a Muslim

: When Malcolm X went to Saudi Arabia and saw the true Islam and realized that Islam is about equality between all dispite color money background, then Malcolm X left the 'Nation of Islam' and opened up a Mosque to practice true Islam, where white and black were equally welcomed.

: http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/about/convert/20.htm

: when Malcom X went to Mecca, and realized people of all color were equal, he left the 'nation of Islam' to be a real Muslim.

: Peace and Blessings,
: Your Brother in Islam: Mohamed

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