Re: Jochen's commitment to God's Truth? #1 and #2

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Debate ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by Mohamed Ghounem on March 28, 1998 at 16:40:18:

In Reply to: Re: Jochen's commitment to God's Truth? #1 and #2 posted by Ryan on March 28, 1998 at 03:50:55:

Dear brother Ryan,

My deep humble apologies, I repent for suggesting that you accuse me of deciptive tactics.

My confusion as to your intent is explainable:

For example: you say 'Jeffrey is right in what he said and not what you paint him to have said.' then your practically repeating what he is saying.

Here you are telling Me that what Jeffrey said to Me is *right*, the way I interprate that is that when Jeffery said ' You've heard of smokescreens? Your post was full of it.'

So when you agree that Jeffery is right that I use smokescreens/deciptive tactics, then I think you are also accuseing me of smoke screens since you State that Jeffery is right.

For example if you said that Jeffery is wrong, then I would think that you are not accuseing me of smokescreens as Jeffery does.

For example: If Jeffery accused me of haveing love for all humans and then you said "Jeff is right" then I would interperate that to say that you are also saying what Jeff is saying.

The same thing with your previous post, When Mike accused me of deceptive tactics, your reply to me was to give me the dictionary meaning and you said 'you probably find it hard to understand the thrust of Mike's argument but to make it a little easier perhaps you would like to look at the following document about logical fallacies etc. (or Hey Mike, make it easier would ya? :) )'

I also understood this to mean that you are in agreement with Mike's claims, this understanding is confirmed by your finnal statement; 'Even after Mike, Jeff and Malakh's telling you that you're wrong, you still won't own up to it. There is absolutely no point talking to a brick wall.'

From this statement of yours, your telling me that they said something true and I should react to it and because I have not reacted to their claims, I am a brick wall.

I apologize for thinking that you too are sugesting that I use deciptive tactics, if you had disagreed with them then my confusion would not have occured, I misunderstood you when you claim those who accuse me of deceptive tactics are Right, but you yourself are not accuseing me of deciptive tactics, does that sum it up?

Now that I apologized to you, show me where I use deceptive tactics so I can own up to it, give me a example of my deceptive tactic so that I won't upset you any more, Jeff, Mike (I don't agree that Malakh accused me of deciption, it was just pure wonderful theological debate) did not show me where or give me examples of how, can you be kind enough to do so that I do not repeat that mistake?

I admit and apologize for the fact that you do not say that I uses deciptive tactics, but since you agree with the two who do, and say that 'they are right and that I am wrong' all I am asking you for is simple and sincere, show me where I am wrong so I can not repeat and apologize for the wrong behavior, OK?

by the way, you did say in your "breaking the silence"(post) 'Are you not committing the very same thing you accused Jochen of doing in that post?'

and

'Will there be a day, where ad hominem attacks (a logical fallacy btw if you indeed have read the webpage I pointed you to a long while ago) cease?'

and in the "I did't say that"(post)

'Sorry, to me, the kettle is a black as the pot.'

Let me summerize, you don't like me because I show that Jesus is not the only way to Salvation, you don't like me because I point out some un-Holy acts on part of some others, and now you don't like me because I thought from your last two posts, that you accuse me of deciptive tactics, well, I do like you and would like to help you be at peace with me, the first step is to understand one another.

Don't hold back in showing me where in my posts I am wrong or decieve, the Devil is the father of the lies (John 8:44) and according to the Gospel, lying is equated with evil (Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:22), as a Christian, you should show Muslims and Christians alike when the devil has a hold on them, if their is deception on my part or on anyones part reguardless of weather they pray to one God bowing on the Ground or sitting on a bench, take the time to show them where and how.

Peace and Blessings,
Your brother in Islam: Mohamed

Follow Ups:

Re: Jochen's commitment to God's Truth? #1 and #2 Ryan 3/30/98 (0)

Post a Followup

Name    : 
E-Mail  : 

Subject  : Re: Re: Jochen's commitment to God's Truth? #1 and #2

Comments:
: Dear brother Ryan,

: My deep humble apologies, I repent for suggesting that you accuse me of deciptive tactics.

: My confusion as to your intent is explainable:

: For example: you say 'Jeffrey is right in what he said and not what you paint him to have said.' then your practically repeating what he is saying.

: Here you are telling Me that what Jeffrey said to Me is *right*, the way I interprate that is that when Jeffery said ' You've heard of smokescreens? Your post was full of it.'

: So when you agree that Jeffery is right that I use smokescreens/deciptive tactics, then I think you are also accuseing me of smoke screens since you State that Jeffery is right.

: For example if you said that Jeffery is wrong, then I would think that you are not accuseing me of smokescreens as Jeffery does.

: For example: If Jeffery accused me of haveing love for all humans and then you said "Jeff is right" then I would interperate that to say that you are also saying what Jeff is saying.

: The same thing with your previous post, When Mike accused me of deceptive tactics, your reply to me was to give me the dictionary meaning and you said 'you probably find it hard to understand the thrust of Mike's argument but to make it a little easier perhaps you would like to look at the following document about logical fallacies etc. (or Hey Mike, make it easier would ya? :) )'

: I also understood this to mean that you are in agreement with Mike's claims, this understanding is confirmed by your finnal statement; 'Even after Mike, Jeff and Malakh's telling you that you're wrong, you still won't own up to it. There is absolutely no point talking to a brick wall.'

: From this statement of yours, your telling me that they said something true and I should react to it and because I have not reacted to their claims, I am a brick wall.

: I apologize for thinking that you too are sugesting that I use deciptive tactics, if you had disagreed with them then my confusion would not have occured, I misunderstood you when you claim those who accuse me of deceptive tactics are Right, but you yourself are not accuseing me of deciptive tactics, does that sum it up?

: Now that I apologized to you, show me where I use deceptive tactics so I can own up to it, give me a example of my deceptive tactic so that I won't upset you any more, Jeff, Mike (I don't agree that Malakh accused me of deciption, it was just pure wonderful theological debate) did not show me where or give me examples of how, can you be kind enough to do so that I do not repeat that mistake?

: I admit and apologize for the fact that you do not say that I uses deciptive tactics, but since you agree with the two who do, and say that 'they are right and that I am wrong' all I am asking you for is simple and sincere, show me where I am wrong so I can not repeat and apologize for the wrong behavior, OK?

: by the way, you did say in your "breaking the silence"(post) 'Are you not committing the very same thing you accused Jochen of doing in that post?'

: and 

: 'Will there be a day, where ad hominem attacks (a logical fallacy btw if you indeed have read the webpage I pointed you to a long while ago) cease?'

: and in the "I did't say that"(post)

: 'Sorry, to me, the kettle is a black as the pot.'

: Let me summerize, you don't like me because I show that Jesus is not the only way to Salvation, you don't like me because I point out some un-Holy acts on part of some others, and now you don't like me because I thought from your last two posts, that you accuse me of deciptive tactics, well, I do like you and would like to help you be at peace with me, the first step is to understand one another.  

: Don't hold back in showing me where in my posts I am wrong or decieve, the Devil is the father of the lies (John 8:44) and according to the Gospel, lying is equated  with evil (Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:22), as a Christian, you should show Muslims and Christians alike when the devil has a hold on them, if their is deception on my part or on anyones part reguardless of weather they pray to one God bowing on the Ground or sitting on a bench, take the time to show them where and how.

: Peace and Blessings,
: Your brother in Islam: Mohamed

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Debate ] [ FAQ ]