Re: Why Muslims are wrong in their beliefs.

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Posted by Howard on March 02, 1998 at 21:50:53:

In Reply to: Re: Why Muslims are wrong in their beliefs. posted by Mohamed Ghounem on March 01, 1998 at 00:14:35:

: Dear Brother Mohamed, Hi

Thank for your interesting comment. The things that you criticize about Christianity in your comment are worthy of criticism. However they are not true; and in fact the true answers witness to the glory of Jesus and to the Church He founded and sustains to the end of time.

: Mohamed:
: Your welcome, that is amazing, 'Jesus in the Catholic church in a special way', When speaking to Christians about Removing their shoes when entering into a church, they respond that a church is just a building, nothing special about it, no one honorable inside.

Howard: It is amazing; the truth about the Eucharist is amazing. A Church is not just a building; first of all it a consecrated building, built over the relic of a saint. But even more importantly, the Eucharist is reserved in the tabernacle in the Church. You probably don't know that "in the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist, the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained." Catechism of the Catholic Church. That is why Catholics genuflect--kneel--when they enter A church or pray before the Eucharist, becuase Jesus Christ, God and man, makes Himself wholly and entirely present in the eucharistic species; and is thus present to be adored in our Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.

: Mohamed:
: Wow, I do not mean to rebute this, I would just like us to reach the bare logical facts. 1) Does God have friends? Howard: Of course. Every Saint in heaven is certainly a friend of God. Why else would they be there?

, 2)What if the statue breaks, is it simply replaced or are some statues of saints unreplaceable,
Howard: It is simply replaced.
However sacred icons are to be venerated, as the Second Council of Nicaea declared "Following the divinely inspired teaching of our holy Fathers and the traditions of the Catholic Church (for we know that tradition comes from the Holy spirit who dwells in her) we rightly define with full certainty and correctness that, like the figure of the precious and life-giving cross, venerable and holy images of our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ, our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God, and the venerated angels, all the saints and the just, whether painted or made of mosaic or another suitable material, are to be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on sacred vessels and vestments, walls and panels, in houses and on streets."
and 3) do people in the Catholic community who's physical features are similar to certain saints, do those individuals recieve preferencial treatment (i.e. Predjudism).
Howard: No special preference. such a thing would be unheard of. Let me say that one of the things I most admire about your prophet and Islam is its declaration that all people are brothers, and that the person closest to God is the person who is most pious. Likewise I know Muhammed appointed his freed slave Bilal to an important office. Likewise Christianity declares that God is no respecter of persons.

: Mohamed:
: Yes, Truth is admirable, thank you, now you say Jesus is Man and God, this has been a Catholic belief for a while, can it too be changed by another Nicaea meeting, what do you think Christian scholars would vote if asked of the divinity of Jesus:

: In the British newspaper the "Daily News" 25/6/84 under the heading "Shock survey of Anglican Bishops" We read

: "More than half of England's Anglican Bishops say that Christians are not obliged to believe that Jesus Christ was God, according to a survey published today. The pole of 31 of England's 39 bishops shows that many of them think that Christ's miracles, the virgin birth and the resurrection might not have happened exactly as described in the Bible. Only 11 of the bishops insisted that Christians must regard Christ as both God and man, while 19 said it was sufficient to regard Jesus as 'God's supreme agent'"

: May be they, brother Howard, should re-vote?

Howard: Everyone knows that Christian beliefs are not up to a vote. "Christ the Lord in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel..." Cat. of the CC. "All Power in heaven and earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you and behold I am with you all days even unto the consummation of the World." Mat. 28:18-20. This Deposit of Faith, entrusted by Jesus to The Church, and having as its highest truths our beliefs about the Blessed Trinity and the Divinity of Jesus, cannot be altered. It is irreformable. A dogma proclaimed by a sacred Council like Nicaea cannot be changed. If you go through all dogmatic statements solemlnly promulgated by the Church you will not find one that needed to be reformed or changed. What Jesus taught the Apostles, what was committed to the Sacred Scriptures under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, what has been proclaimed by the Ecumenical councils and in our Creeds, we believe today and will always believe, because Jesus is with us to the end of time. Therefore no Christian can deny central truths of our faith procalimed in our creeds, such as the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, and the Divinity of Jesus. I don't know much about the Anglican Bishops. I will leave it to my anglican brothers and sisters to explain your poll, if it is even true. Certainly you know that any Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Bishop who denied the divinity of Jesus would be immediately deposed and excommunicated.

Peace to you, Howard

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Subject : Re: Re: Why Muslims are wrong in their beliefs.

Comments:
: : Dear Brother Mohamed, Hi

: Thank for your interesting comment. The things that you criticize about Christianity in your comment are worthy of criticism. However they are not true; and in fact the true answers witness to the glory of Jesus and to the Church He founded and sustains to the end of time.

:
: : Mohamed:
: : Your welcome, that is amazing, 'Jesus in the Catholic church in a special way', When speaking to Christians about <A HREF="http://debate.org.uk/weboard/debate/messages/333.html">Removing their shoes when entering into a church</A>, they respond that a church is just a building, nothing special about it, no one honorable inside.

: Howard: It is amazing; the truth about the Eucharist is amazing. A Church is not just a building; first of all it a consecrated building, built over the relic of a saint. But even more importantly, the Eucharist is reserved in the tabernacle in the Church. You probably don't know that "in the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist, the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained." Catechism of the Catholic Church. That is why Catholics genuflect--kneel--when they enter A church or pray before the Eucharist, becuase Jesus Christ, God and man, makes Himself wholly and entirely present in the eucharistic species; and is thus present to be adored in our Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.

:
: : Mohamed:
: : Wow, I do not mean to rebute this, I would just like us to reach the bare logical facts. 1) Does God have friends? Howard: Of course. Every Saint in heaven is certainly a friend of God. Why else would they be there?

:
: , 2)What if the statue breaks, is it simply replaced or are some statues of saints unreplaceable,
: Howard: It is simply replaced.
: However sacred icons are to be venerated, as the Second Council of Nicaea declared "Following the divinely inspired teaching of our holy Fathers and the traditions of the Catholic Church (for we know that tradition comes from the Holy spirit who dwells in her) we rightly define with full certainty and correctness that, like the figure of the precious and life-giving cross, venerable and holy images of our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ, our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God, and the venerated angels, all the saints and the just, whether painted or made of mosaic or another suitable material, are to be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on sacred vessels and vestments, walls and panels, in houses and on streets."
: and 3) do people in the Catholic community who's physical features are similar to certain saints, do those individuals recieve preferencial treatment (i.e. Predjudism).
: Howard: No special preference. such a thing would be unheard of. Let me say that one of the things I most admire about your prophet and Islam is its declaration that all people are brothers, and that the person closest to God is the person who is most pious. Likewise I know Muhammed appointed his freed slave Bilal to an important office. Likewise Christianity declares that God is no respecter of persons.

:
: : Mohamed:
: : Yes, Truth is admirable, thank you, now you say Jesus is Man and God, this has been a Catholic belief for a while, can it too be changed by another Nicaea meeting, what do you think Christian scholars would vote if asked of the divinity of Jesus:

: : In the British newspaper the "Daily News" 25/6/84 under the heading "Shock survey of Anglican Bishops" We read

: : "More than half of England's Anglican Bishops say that Christians are not obliged to believe that Jesus Christ was God, according to a survey published today. The pole of 31 of England's 39 bishops shows that many of them think that Christ's miracles, the virgin birth and the resurrection might not have happened exactly as described in the Bible. Only 11 of the bishops insisted that Christians must regard Christ as both God and man, while 19 said it was sufficient to regard Jesus as 'God's supreme agent'"

: : May be they, brother Howard, should re-vote?

:
: Howard: Everyone knows that Christian beliefs are not up to a vote. "Christ the Lord in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel..." Cat. of the CC. "All Power in heaven and earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you and behold I am with you all days even unto the consummation of the World." Mat. 28:18-20. This Deposit of Faith, entrusted by Jesus to The Church, and having as its highest truths our beliefs about the Blessed Trinity and the Divinity of Jesus, cannot be altered. It is irreformable. A dogma proclaimed by a sacred Council like Nicaea cannot be changed. If you go through all dogmatic statements solemlnly promulgated by the Church you will not find one that needed to be reformed or changed. What Jesus taught the Apostles, what was committed to the Sacred Scriptures under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, what has been proclaimed by the Ecumenical councils and in our Creeds, we believe today and will always believe, because Jesus is with us to the end of time. Therefore no Christian can deny central truths of our faith procalimed in our creeds, such as the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, and the Divinity of Jesus. I don't know much about the Anglican Bishops. I will leave it to my anglican brothers and sisters to explain your poll, if it is even true. Certainly you know that any Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Bishop who denied the divinity of Jesus would be immediately deposed and excommunicated.

: Peace to you, Howard

:
: :

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