Posted by Mohamed Ghounem on December 09, 1997 at 13:22:24:
In Reply to: Surah 97 originally a Christmas carol? posted by Christoph Heger on December 09, 1997 at 09:45:24:
Dear Brother Christoph,
I will start where you do;
{In my contribution to the thread "Qur'an" I wondered why the
vast majority of Muslim theologians were so extreme as to
declare that the Qur'an be "uncreated and eternal" like a
second god.}
Tracy and I both answered your concern, redundancy doesn't make
a unanswered question.
Would you kindly show me where in the Koran or give me
reference to your theologians that declare the Koran is a second
God. Repeating your question, not showing me reference and not
accepting valid "translations" sounds like who:)
{I guessed the reason lies in early-Islam history:
Jesus is called "the word of God" (kalimat Allah) in the Qur'an.
And this idea of the word of god being god, i.e. uncreated and
eternal, was made over from Jesus to the Qur'an.}
I've also showed in the earlier reply below, "giving reference"
to the Book of Acts that Jesus was not considered a son of God by
early Christians which you agreed with and told me that you
meant the Christians of the 7th century.
You agree that there is a difference between original Christians
and 7th century Christians the difference is the original Christians
accoding to the earliest record in the Book of Acts is that they
believed like the Muslims believe, that Jesus is a honored Prophet.
The Koran is sent to put us on the Path of Righteousness, again if
you want to follow the revisision of the revision that is your free choice.
{One should look whether these passages wouldn't show
a good or even better sense if one allows for the possibility
that they originally didn't refer to the Qur'an at all, but to
Jesus Christ. And I pointed to surah 97 (al-Qadr) as an example.}
Yes, I agree that one and "All" should look at the Koran, and judge for themselves.
{ Now, you, Ghounem, maintained:}
The English translation of Chapter 97 is :
: : In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
(1) "The Koran is revealed in the Month of Ramadam Month of fasting)."
: : Christians do not fast for a month, so your hypothesis is already invalidated
{I don't know how you come across this translation.}
This translation is from "Al Montakhab" published by the "Azhar"
the oldest Islamic University in the world which gives detailed translations.
{There is no Ramadan or month of fasting in the verse!
And therefore your conclusion about my hypothesis is void.}
That is according to your partial quoteing of the translations.
Since you prefer to quote popular translations, this is what
I will quote "completely" unlike your partial quotes.
{The traditional and simple translation is according to the
translators Yusufali, Pickthal and Shakir:}
I agree, it's a shame that you don't follow your own advice.
I will give the complete translation by "Yusuf Ali".
YUSUFALI:(1) "We have indeed revealed this (Message) in the Night of Power:
If you depend on internet search engines, this is all you will get,
if you go to your local Mosque and pick up a free copy of Yusuf Ali's
translation, you will clearly see verse 1 is explained;
"The 23rd, 25th and 27th night of Ramadhan, as well as other nights
have been suggested as the Night of Power."
YUSUFALI: (2) And what will explain to thee what the night of power is?
(3) "Deeds imprinted with wisdom and piety such - like supplication, benevolence, pondering, acquirement of knowledge, performed at that night, merit a reward which outweighs the reward due for like deeds accomplished for one thousand months."
: : Here "works" are clarified to be righteous and the path to God especially on the month of Ramadam, what Christmas carol says that.
{This "translation" is mere phantasy. Look what our three translators have:}
: YUSUFALI: The Night of Power is better than a thousand months.
Yes let us look at what your reference says "One moment of elightenment under Allah's light
is better than a thousand months" and the "Montakhab" goes into
more clarification as seen above.
: : (4) "The angels and Gibreel descend in it by the permission of their Lord for every affair,"
{There is no "Gibreel" mentioned in the verse. The Arabic word "rooh" is the English "spirit" or alike, and to understand it as the angel Gibreel is rather risky. Only Shakir has it:}
: YUSUFALI: Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by Allah's permission, on every errand.
Since you quote Yusuf Ali, the least you can do my friend is read
the introduction and summary Yusuf Ali writes for Surah 97:
Yusuf Ali writes "The subject matter is the Night of Power (or Honour), which Revelation
came down to the Prophet for the first time through Angel Gabriel."
: YUSUFALI: (5) Peace!.This until the rise of morn!
"When the Night of spiritual darkness is dissipated by the glory
of Allah, a wonderful Peace and a sense of Security arise in the
soul. And this lasts on until this life closes, and the glorious
Day of the new world dawns, when everything will be on a different
plane, and the chequered nights and days of this world will be even
less than a dream."
Peace and Blessings,
Your Brother in Islam, Mohamed