Re: catholic women and muslim men

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Posted by anja on March 20, 1998 at 21:38:20:

In Reply to: Re: catholic women and muslim men posted by Jochen Katz on March 17, 1998 at 22:09:53:

Hi Jochen,

thanks for Your nice reply. Of course I can give You sources. By the way, I don`t think
all Western sources are generally more deluted than Eastern ones ;-). They might just be
differently deluted :-). Depending on the culture they are coming from ;-).

But anyhow, let`s try to find something Islamic :-). Unfortunately neither is my private
library that big, nor my Arabic that good. So please give me some more time.

I did already look something up on the inheritance though.
The Non-Muslim can inherit up to one third by will. He is just not elligble to inherit due to
bloodrelationship.
source: e.g.
Al-Fiqh Al-Islami wa`adillatuh (Islamic right and its prooves), by Dr. Wahbah
Al-Zuhayly, published by Dar Al-Fikr in Damaskus, 3rd edition 1989 (1st ed. 1984)
Part VIII, S. 58.

According to the same book as far as I see You are partly right on the balance of shares
matter. What I have found up to now is indicating, that the wife can receive 1/3, but the
other heirs are asked for consent. Which would be e.g. her children. Well, now we can
start speculating, who will or won`t give his or her consent to an expressed wish of that
husband to leave 1/3rd of the inheritance to his wife..., but i guess that wouldn`t lead
anywhere.
The husband can in any case give his wife presents as he likes during his lifetime, or write
property on her name. Something frequently done here in Egypt.
Also there is an amount of money specified in the marriage contract (muakhir), which
would be legally considered as part of the mahr, the bridegift, but is payable upon divorce
by husband or upon his death, to his wife (respective widow). To a caring husband, there
are ways to ensure his wifes financial security.
At least at the time of marriage contract, I guess, most husbands wil be of good will :-).

Anyhow, I also have been advised, not to take a too high amount as muakhir, as maybe
someday both parties would agree to a divorce and can`t divorce, because the husband
doesn`t have the money to pay...

I am still looking for the one with the rights of a Christian woman to practise her faith.
Though I am sure about it :-).

I don't want to scare everyone, but in the West childcare is not decided
based on religion. If in an Islamic country the rights will automatically
go to the Muslim. Period.

Well, I wouldn`t know of any case, where the Muslim parent did get the right for
childcare in the West... Maybe there are cases though.

In the west it is the question who is best suited and even then the other
party always has the right to visit with the children, something not granted
to the infidel under Islamic law.

I would be suprised by that one. I will see, what sources I can find to that one, and would
like to see Yours for that case.

You say about parents tearing their children between two religions:
So, here you have the desaster programmed already.

So I said already in my first post, under these circumstances it is not easy. Though in my
experience in marriages like this usually one or the other partner isn`t too serious about his
or her religious commitent, at least at the time of marriage. And God alone knows, what
the future will bring... :-) Guess, I am optimistic.

About killing an apostate You say:

It doesn't happen always, but it is the Sharia law.

... in countries, where Shari3a law is in use and after a court trial of the case.

Well, look at Egypt and Pakistan.

I am living in Egypt :-). I even went once to the church, with my cousin who was visiting.
We had some nice talks. The Christians here in town don`t feel discriminated in any way.
A lot of the friends of my sister in law are Christians, and they are visiting back and forth.
My father in law still has contact with his Christian collegues, whom he was working with
20 years ago. Also lots of the shops in town are Christians. I don`t know any converts
though. I do know of Christians who converted to Islam, and the Christian community
here trying to bribe them with a high amount of money to come back to church...
Well, I guess those stories are everywhere...

Things aren't always as rosy as they appear from the mouth of
western Muslims.

Things aren`t as rosy as they should be any place, no matter what mouth :-). Same for the
West. I know Germany ...

May the grace of the Lord cover you and lead you in all HIS truth,

Ameen. And the same for You :-).

Anja

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Subject : Re: Re: catholic women and muslim men

Comments:
: Hi Jochen,

: thanks for Your nice reply. Of course I can give You sources. By the way, I don`t think
: all Western sources are generally more deluted than Eastern ones ;-). They might just be
: differently deluted :-). Depending on the culture they are coming from ;-).

: But anyhow, let`s try to find something Islamic :-). Unfortunately neither is my private
: library that big, nor my Arabic that good. So please give me some more time.

: I did already look something up on the inheritance though.
: The Non-Muslim can inherit up to one third by will. He is just not elligble to inherit due to
: bloodrelationship.
: source: e.g.
: Al-Fiqh Al-Islami wa`adillatuh (Islamic right and its prooves), by Dr. Wahbah
: Al-Zuhayly, published by Dar Al-Fikr in Damaskus, 3rd edition 1989 (1st ed. 1984)
: Part VIII, S. 58.

: According to the same book as far as I see You are partly right on the balance of shares
: matter. What I have found up to now is indicating, that the wife can receive 1/3, but the
: other heirs are asked for consent. Which would be e.g. her children. Well, now we can
: start speculating, who will or won`t give his or her consent to an expressed wish of that
: husband to leave 1/3rd of the inheritance to his wife..., but i guess that wouldn`t lead
: anywhere.
: The husband can in any case give his wife presents as he likes during his lifetime, or write
: property on her name. Something frequently done here in Egypt.
: Also there is an amount of money specified in the marriage contract (muakhir), which
: would be legally considered as part of the mahr, the bridegift, but is payable upon divorce
: by husband or upon his death, to his wife (respective widow). To a caring husband, there
: are ways to ensure his wifes financial security.
: At least at the time of marriage contract, I guess, most husbands wil be of good will :-).

: Anyhow, I also have been advised, not to take a too high amount as muakhir, as maybe
: someday both parties would agree to a divorce and can`t divorce, because the husband
: doesn`t have the money to pay...

: I am still looking for the one with the rights of a Christian woman to practise her faith.
: Though I am sure about it :-).

: I don't want to scare everyone, but in the West childcare is not decided
: based on religion. If in an Islamic country the rights will automatically
: go to the Muslim. Period.

: Well, I wouldn`t know of any case, where the Muslim parent did get the right for
: childcare in the West... Maybe there are cases though.

: In the west it is the question who is best suited and even then the other
: party always has the right to visit with the children, something not granted
: to the infidel under Islamic law.
:

: I would be suprised by that one. I will see, what sources I can find to that one, and would
: like to see Yours for that case.

: You say about parents tearing their children between two religions:
: So, here you have the desaster programmed already.

: So I said already in my first post, under these circumstances it is not easy. Though in my
: experience in marriages like this usually one or the other partner isn`t too serious about his
: or her religious commitent, at least at the time of marriage. And God alone knows, what
: the future will bring... :-) Guess, I am optimistic.

: About killing an apostate You say:

: It doesn't happen always, but it is the Sharia law.
:

: ... in countries, where Shari3a law is in use and after a court trial of the case.

: Well, look at Egypt and Pakistan.

: I am living in Egypt :-). I even went once to the church, with my cousin who was visiting.
: We had some nice talks. The Christians here in town don`t feel discriminated in any way.
: A lot of the friends of my sister in law are Christians, and they are visiting back and forth.
: My father in law still has contact with his Christian collegues, whom he was working with
: 20 years ago. Also lots of the shops in town are Christians. I don`t know any converts
: though. I do know of Christians who converted to Islam, and the Christian community
: here trying to bribe them with a high amount of money to come back to church...
: Well, I guess those stories are everywhere...

: Things aren't always as rosy as they appear from the mouth of
: western Muslims.
:

: Things aren`t as rosy as they should be any place, no matter what mouth :-). Same for the
: West. I know Germany ...

: May the grace of the Lord cover you and lead you in all HIS truth,
:

: Ameen. And the same for You :-).

: Anja
:

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