Re: Unity against Against Satan (i.e. Materialism)

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Posted by Barbara on February 21, 1998 at 23:06:40:

In Reply to: Re: Unity against Against Satan (i.e. Materialism) posted by Mohamed Ghounem on February 21, 1998 at 13:33:24:

: Dear Christians,

: I have recently asked: If we step back and look at theBig Picture, doesn't the Qur'an unite the Jews, Christians, and Muslims by teaching that Jesus was saved from the cross, therefore giving the Jews no reason to discredit Jesus.
: I have been told by a very nice person:

Hi Mohamed,
Flattery will get you nowhere :).
I said this:
: {Is unity our main desire? Is it the defining factor in truth? I see truth as a necessary object of faith, so that my faith is not in vain. You can also apply this to what you see as unity between Jews, Christians and Muslims. I believe Christianity holds the truth and it would not matter to me if I were not in any kind of unity with anybody, so long as I am in one accord with my Lord.}

You said:
: The first thing that came to mind when I read this is that We are all Created by Allah, therefore we are all brothers and sisters, and that unity should be a number one priority against Satan.
: I was suprized when I was told that this person did not value unity with other fellow humans, only in the belief that Jesus was killed for sins.

I never said that unity has no value. I said it was not our *main* desire.
If it doesn't stand behind truth, what good is it? I do value humans. My, oh, my.
The destiny of their souls is always on my heart. My loyalty is to Christ, otherwise
how will others find the way?

: I then searched the Bible and this is what I found;
: Jesus says= "I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 17:23

Did you not notice here that Jesus is praying for the disciples, and all who believe their ministry?
See verse 20.

: "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. Ephesians 4:3
: "Also in Judah the hand of God was on the people to give them unity of mind to carry out what the king and his officials had ordered, following the word of the LORD. 2 Chronicles 30:12
: "How good and pleasant it is when brothers live together in unity! Psalms 133:1
: "May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, Romans 15:5
: "And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:14
: The Message was clear that the Creator desired Unity, not through blood but through love, faith, following the teachings of Jesus, who was sent by God.

Clear as mud to you, I think (sigh). You are again leaving out surrounding verses that
qualify the meaning of the verse. Context and audience are very important.
God does want Christians to be unified so others know that we are His.
We are, of course, called to live harmoniously with those of other faiths if
at all possible. We are not to compromise our own faith for the sake of unity.
By the way, the teachings of Jesus call for us to put our faith on him and his blood.
Matthew 26:28,John 3:16.

: If we believe Paul in that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, then the Jews would not accept Jesus, Paul also called the Law of Moses a curse, taking away from more unity with the Jews.

Wouldn't we be unified if we all believed Jesus died on the cross, and rose again,
as He Himself said and Paul testified?

: As the Jews and Christians are divided over Jesus, and not in Unity, not in accordance with the teachings of the Bible (Unity), The Qur'an is sent to clarify and Unite.
: The Beautiful thing is that We have History on our side in that We can look back and see the effects as Proof.
: If we Look Back at the Middle East for example (which counts for only 27% of the Muslims World Wide) When the Qur'an was first sent over 1,400 years ago, there were mostly Pagans, then a equal division of Jews and Christians.
: The Qur'an then United the Middle East, all except maybe 20%. The Middle Easterners like Jesus and Abraham, have a better unrstanding of the previous and present revelations and 80% of them Are now Muslim.
: History also proves to us the Power of Unity within the Qur'an in reguards to states.
: Under the result of the Bible, the State "divided" into secular and religious, while Under the result of the Qur'an, the state is united. About 45 countries are mostly goverened by the teachings of the Qur'an, while none by the Bible.

: We worship the same Creator, therefore let us not let misconceptions stand in our way to understand the Message of Love and Unity. Let us learn from our History. Materialism is sweeping away piety, charity for the needy, and breaking bonds between loved ones. Allah wants us to unite.
: "And lo! this your religion is one religion and I am your Lord, so keep your duty unto Me.
: But they cut off their religion among themselves into sects, each part rejoicing in that which is with them.
: But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time. Do they think that because We have granted them abundance of wealth and sons, We would hasten them on in every good? Nay, they do not understand.
: Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord; Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord; Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord; And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
: It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in (attaining) them. Qur'an 23:52-61
: And they have broken their religion (into fragments) among them, (yet) all are returning unto Us. Qur'an 21:93

I will value truth over unity.
Jesus says truth sometimes brings strife and disunity. Read Matthew 10: 34-38.
He says even Satan has unity within his ranks. Read Matthew 12: 25-30.
But what is important here, unity on earth or...
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26.
Truth?
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:31,32.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6.

My prayers go out for you, Mohamed.
May you find truth and the unity of the scriptures.
Barbara

: Peace and Blessings,
: Your Brother in Islam: Mohamed

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Re: Unity against Against Satan (i.e. Materialism) Mohamed Ghounem 2/27/98 (0)

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Subject : Re: Re: Unity against Against Satan (i.e. Materialism)

Comments:
: : Dear Christians,

: : I have recently asked: If we step back and look at theBig Picture, doesn't the Qur'an unite the Jews, Christians, and Muslims by teaching that Jesus was saved from the cross, therefore giving the Jews no reason to discredit Jesus.
: : I have been told by a very nice person:

: Hi Mohamed,
: Flattery will get you nowhere :).
: I said this:
: : {Is unity our main desire? Is it the defining factor in truth? I see truth as a necessary object of faith, so that my faith is not in vain. You can also apply this to what you see as unity between Jews, Christians and Muslims. I believe Christianity holds the truth and it would not matter to me if I were not in any kind of unity with anybody, so long as I am in one accord with my Lord.}

: You said:
: : The first thing that came to mind when I read this is that We are all Created by Allah, therefore we are all brothers and sisters, and that unity should be a number one priority against Satan.
: : I was suprized when I was told that this person did not value unity with other fellow humans, only in the belief that Jesus was killed for sins.

: I never said that unity has no value. I said it was not our *main* desire.
: If it doesn't stand behind truth, what good is it? I do value humans. My, oh, my.
: The destiny of their souls is always on my heart. My loyalty is to Christ, otherwise
: how will others find the way?

: : I then searched the Bible and this is what I found;
: : Jesus says= "I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 17:23

: Did you not notice here that Jesus is praying for the disciples, and all who believe their ministry?
: See verse 20.

: : "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. Ephesians 4:3
: : "Also in Judah the hand of God was on the people to give them unity of mind to carry out what the king and his officials had ordered, following the word of the LORD. 2 Chronicles 30:12
: : "How good and pleasant it is when brothers live together in unity! Psalms 133:1
: : "May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, Romans 15:5
: : "And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:14
: : The Message was clear that the Creator desired Unity, not through blood but through love, faith, following the teachings of Jesus, who was sent by God.

: Clear as mud to you, I think (sigh). You are again leaving out surrounding verses that
: qualify the meaning of the verse. Context and audience are very important.
: God does want Christians to be unified so others know that we are His.
: We are, of course, called to live harmoniously with those of other faiths if
: at all possible. We are not to compromise our own faith for the sake of unity.
: By the way, the teachings of Jesus call for us to put our faith on him and his blood.
: Matthew 26:28,John 3:16.

: : If we believe Paul in that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, then the Jews would not accept Jesus, Paul also called the Law of Moses a curse, taking away from more unity with the Jews.

: Wouldn't we be unified if we all believed Jesus died on the cross, and rose again,
: as He Himself said and Paul testified?
:
: : As the Jews and Christians are divided over Jesus, and not in Unity, not in accordance with the teachings of the Bible (Unity), The Qur'an is sent to clarify and Unite.
: : The Beautiful thing is that We have History on our side in that We can look back and see the effects as Proof.
: : If we Look Back at the Middle East for example (which counts for only 27% of the Muslims World Wide) When the Qur'an was first sent over 1,400 years ago, there were mostly Pagans, then a equal division of Jews and Christians.
: : The Qur'an then United the Middle East, all except maybe 20%. The Middle Easterners like Jesus and Abraham, have a better unrstanding of the previous and present revelations and 80% of them Are now Muslim.
: : History also proves to us the Power of Unity within the Qur'an in reguards to states.
: : Under the result of the Bible, the State "divided" into secular and religious, while Under the result of the Qur'an, the state is united. About 45 countries are mostly goverened by the teachings of the Qur'an, while none by the Bible.

: : We worship the same Creator, therefore let us not let misconceptions stand in our way to understand the Message of Love and Unity. Let us learn from our History. Materialism is sweeping away piety, charity for the needy, and breaking bonds between loved ones. Allah wants us to unite.
: : "And lo! this your religion is one religion and I am your Lord, so keep your duty unto Me.
: : But they cut off their religion among themselves into sects, each part rejoicing in that which is with them.
: : But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time. Do they think that because We have granted them abundance of wealth and sons, We would hasten them on in every good? Nay, they do not understand.
: : Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord; Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord; Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord; And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
: : It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in (attaining) them. Qur'an 23:52-61
: : And they have broken their religion (into fragments) among them, (yet) all are returning unto Us. Qur'an 21:93

: I will value truth over unity.
: Jesus says truth sometimes brings strife and disunity. Read Matthew 10: 34-38.
: He says even Satan has unity within his ranks. Read Matthew 12: 25-30.
: But what is important here, unity on earth or...
: For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26.
: Truth?
: Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:31,32.
: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6.

: My prayers go out for you, Mohamed.
: May you find truth and the unity of the scriptures.
: Barbara

:
: : Peace and Blessings,
: : Your Brother in Islam: Mohamed

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