Re: Forgiveness

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Posted by Mike Cohen on February 17, 1998 at 08:57:04:

Table of Content :

1) Original Sin ?

2) No Blood , No Forgiveness ?

3) How is a person saved today ? ( Missionary encounter)

4) Does G-d Demand Perfection?

ORGINAL SIN ?

The key to Christian and especially Missionary Christian doctrine is the concept of Original Sin, namely that all mankind is condemned to death and eternal torture in Hell because of the sin of the original two people who disobeyed G-d and ate of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

The teaching goes that G-d cursed them and all future generations and their act introduced death into the world.
And there is nothing we can do about this inherited curse of our own accord. We are condemned from the moment of our birth and need a savior to rescue us. Left to our own devices we are literally, "Damned if we do and damned if we don't."

Okay, let's follow the golden rule of Torah study:

don't quote a single sentence "proof text", read the whole section. What really happened here? (Please read Genesis Chapters 2 and 3. Come on, it just takes a few minutes.)

Now off to the first curse, the snake. Notice verse 15, Chapter 3, "I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and hers...." [1]

Clearly the curse directed at the snake is eternal, given this reference to future generations. And it is a curse as verse 14 says, "Because you did this, more cursed shall you be..."

Now look at the sixteenth verse, the alleged "curse" of the woman. Do you see the word "curse" there anywhere? No, because it is not there. The woman was punished for her acts but not cursed.

On to Adam (Chapter 3, verses 17 -20). The word "cursed" appears in this section, right? Yes, but look at verse 17, "Cursed be the ground because of you." Not "Cursed be you." [italics mine] Big difference.

Adam was going to have to farm (work hard) for a living but absolutely no curse was applied to him directly. It didn't happen. Period.

So we don't have a curse. Wasn't the punishment eternal?

Check again. I've pointed out the reference to future generations in the curse of the snake. There is absolutely no reference to future generations in the punishments of Adam and Eve.

Wasn't this somehow implied?

Well, look at some other sections. When God meant something to be eternal, He said so. Look at Chapter 17, verse 7 which gives the time span of G-d's covenant with Abraham, "I will maintain My covenant between Me and you, and your offspring to come, throughout the ages, to be your G-d to you and to your offspring to come." So G-d was perfectly capable of assigning a time frame, even an eternal time frame, to His actions when He wanted to. Obviously, a Supreme Being Who made the eternal nature of His blessing through Abraham so clear would have made the eternal nature of any curse through Adam equally clear.

But can't we prove the existence of some sort of eternal curse since Adam and Eve brought death to all mankind?

Look at G-d's pronouncement of Adam's "death sentence" in verse 17, "For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."

So Adam and Eve were created with eternal life and then cursed with death, right? Surely their action is the reason we all must die?

Wrong . Adam and Eve were born mortal. Note verse 17 does not says "Dust you have become"; it says "Dust you are." They never had eternal life in the first place. Then check out verses 22 through 25. G-d says (presumably to the angels) regarding Adam, "What if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever?" In other words there was an action which Adam had not yet performed which was required for Adam to sustain his Body and recieve an eternal nature.

And what did G-d do after this statement? He drove Adam out of the garden and placed an angel with a flaming sword to guard the tree of life. In other words, Adam never had an immortal nature to lose. He was simply placed in a position where his mortal nature continued.

let me explain it again :

G-d placed an angel to guard the three of life to prevent Adam and Eve from eating from it for the simple reason that if they had begun to eat from this tree their mortal natures would not have effected them . No Tree of Life = No imortality . We never had an imortal nature .

The bottom line is that there never was any curse of original sin. And there was therefore never any need for anyone to die for us to remove such a curse. We are each responsible for our own actions and our own individual relationship with G-d.

NO BLOOD , NO FORGIVENESS ?

One of the cornerstones of Christian theology is that the only way to achieve atonement for sins is through the offering of a sacrifice whose blood is shed in our place. The Christian scriptures makes this very clear in Hebrews 9:22 "...without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Is this idea consistent with the teachings of the Torah (Hebrew Scriptures )?, or does the Torah and Christian scriptures diverge on this issue? Christians generally insist that the absolute need for a vicarious blood sacrifice is rooted in the Torah, and cite as proof Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul."

As a Christian, you have probably heard many sermons on the topic of atonement, and have undoubtedly read many studies which support the contention that there is no atonement without blood. Of course you are also aware that this is a teaching which is not shared by Jews ( nor Muslims ). Have you ever wondered how they could reject what to you seems so clear? This study has been prepared to give you the opportunity to consider a different perspective on the vital issue of atonement.

ANOTHER LOOK AT LEVITICUS 17:11

You might remember that in junior high school, we were often given an assignment to write the title for a story; what is the central idea of a passage. Let's look at Leviticus 17:11 in context:

"And whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among you, who consumes any blood, I will set My face against that person who consumes blood, and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul. Therefore, I say to the children of Israel, `No one among you shall consume blood, nor shall any stranger who sojourns among you consume blood.'"

What should immediately be apparent is that the topic of this passage is not how to secure atonement from sins, but the prohibition against consuming blood. We are told parenthetically that the reason for this prohibition is that the blood contains the vitality of the animal (cf. Genesis 9:4, Deuteronomy 12:23) and consequently, when we bring an animal sacrifice, its blood serves as the atoning agent, and not another part of its body.

let's consider another point about what is, and what is not being said in Leviticus 17:11. The passage does say that since blood symbolizes the life of the animal, G-d has given it to us as a means of atoning for our sins. But does the verse clearly teach that it is the only means G-d has provided to make atonement? As with any other Biblical study, we will have to examine this question in light of the Bible as a whole. But for now, we should note that our verse merely says that blood can serve as an atonement. It is a means of atonement, but by no means the only form of atonement.

In the Torah, blood sacrifices were not the only path to atonement; there were other ways to achieve forgiveness. For example :

* incense served to atone for the people in Numbers 16:46-47,

* giving charity is described in Exodus 30:15-16 and Numbers 31:50 as `making atonement for your souls' - the same expression as in Leviticus 17:11.

In reality, blood sacrifices were the least effective of all the means of atonement mentioned in the Bible. One important limitation to the effectiveness of sacrifices is that they were only brought for unintentional sins (ie. someone didn't know that kindling a fire was prohibited on the Sabbath, or they were aware of this, but thought it was Sunday when kindling the fire). Sacrifices did not help to atone for sins that were done intentionally (Leviticus 4, and Numbers 15:22-31).

Examining the Christian interpretation of Leviticus 17:11 generates some serious problems. What happens if someone can't afford to purchase an animal for his sin offering? Is it possible that G-d would institute a system of atonement that could only be used by the wealthy? The Torah took this into account and allowed the poor person to bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons if he couldn't afford a lamb (Leviticus 5:7). However, what if someone was so destitute, that he couldn't afford even these small birds? :

"But if his means are insufficient for two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then for his offering for that which he has sinned, he shall bring the tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall not put oil on it or place incense on it, for it is a sin offering." (Leviticus 5:11)

Since flour could be used for a sin offering, it is clear that blood was not a prerequisite for atonement. Another example will drive home the point. The proposition that only blood sacrifices could secure atonement creates a dilemma. Could it be that G-d would set up a system of atonement that wouldn't be available to all people at all times?

While the Temple stood, sacrifices did serve as part of the atonement process. But what is the fate of Jewish people who don't have access to the Temple? What were the Jewish people supposed to do after 586 BCE when the first Temple was destroyed and they were exiled to Babylon? What did the Jewish people do in the times of the Macabees when the Syrian-Greeks were in control of the Temple and didn't allow sacrifices?

Christians erroneously claim that Rabbinic Judaism came up with novel, non-Biblical measures to deal with atonement after the destruction of the Temple by the Romans in 70 CE. Actually, it wasn't Talmudic innovation at all- the Bible anticipated the possibility of the cessation of sacrifices. When King Solomon finally laid the finishing touches on the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, he inaugurated it with a moving dedication speech (I Kings 8; II Chronicles 6). In this lengthy speech of almost 50 verses, you will notice that Solomon doesn't speak about sacrifices at all! This omission would be strange if the most crucial part of the Temple were the sacrifices. Actually, the central focus of the Temple was the Holy Ark (Exodus 25) containing the Torah. The Temple was first and foremost a symbol of G-d's presence and revelation to the Children of Israel (I Kings 8:13, Exodus 25:8).

Towards the end of his speech, Solomon deals with the possibility of the Jewish people being denied access to the Temple in the eventuality that they are exiled from the land of Israel.

"If they return to You with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their enemies who have taken them captive, and pray to You toward their land which You have given to their fathers, the city which You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your name; then hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven Your dwelling place, and maintain their cause, and forgive Your people who have sinned against You and all their transgressions which they have transgressed against You..." (I Kings 8:46-50).

This seminal passage puts the spotlight on the Christian misunderstanding of Leviticus 17:11. The Bible is clearly teaching that sacrifices weren't necessary in order to atone for sins. Prayer and repentance are cited here as effective means for securing atonement. Certainly, when the Temple stood, and one could afford an animal, a sacrifice was brought as part of the atonement process for unintentional sins. Leviticus 17:11 teaches that when we bring such an animal as a sacrifice, we aren't allowed to consume its blood, because as the life force, it is the part of the animal that affects our atonement.

Christian dogma holds that the crucifixion of Jesus at Calvary served as the final atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. Christianity insists that this is not just a Christian innovation, but reflects the requirements of the Torah, and tries to establish this by pointing to Leviticus 17:11 as the key to atonement in the Tanach ( "Torah" is the first 5 books of Moses and "Tanach " are the books of Prophets like "Isaiah ,Jeremiah etc" )

However, if Leviticus 17:11 is examined, it will be clear that Jesus could never serve as an atoning sacrifice. Obviously, the shedding of blood by cuting my finger or killing my cat won't fulfill the Biblical requirements for atonement. The Torah delineates how sacrifices are to be brought.

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you UPON THE ALTAR to make an atonement for your souls..."

Clearly, not any spilled blood is accepted by the Torah as a sacrifice. Jesus' crucifixion may qualify as an atonement according to the Pagan Greeks and the Christian scriptures, but since his blood was not offered on the altar, it is not in line with what the Torah mandates.

There are actually several other factors which would render the crucifixion of Jesus an unacceptable sacrifice. According to the Biblical rules in Leviticus, all sacrifices had to be offered by a Priest who descends from Aaron. This was not the case in the death of Jesus, who was crucified by Roman soldiers .

Additionally, Biblical law prohibited any sacrifice which was blemished or maimed (Leviticus 22:19-21). However, prior to his crucifixion, Jesus was whipped and beaten (Matthew 27:26, Mark 15:19, John 19:3) which would render him unfit .

Frequently, Christians react to this line of reasoning by protesting that it is improper to be so literal, and that Jesus' death was more of a symbolic or spiritual sacrifice. This would be fine if the Bible provided for such ethereal offerings, but such is not the case. The Christian scriptures , however, does insist that Jesus was a real sacrifice, literally fulfilling the Biblical requirements of such:

"But coming to Jesus, when they saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs...in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled: `Not a bone of him shall be broken.'" (John 19:33-36)

The Gospel of John portrays Jesus as the Paschal lamb which was not supposed to have any of its bones broken (Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12). Since the author of John insists that Jesus was a real sacrifice to the extent that the Biblical rules of the Passover were fulfilled in him, we can't dismiss the problems cited above as legalistic nit-picking.

One wonders why the Christian scriptures chose to type Jesus as a Paschal lamb rather than the sacrifice for the Day of Atonement. We know from Exodus 12 that the Passover sacrifice did not serve as an atonement for sins, it commemorates the exodus from Egypt. (Even when the lamb was slaughtered in Egypt and its blood smeared on the doorposts, it did not serve to atone for the sins of anyone. It was a sign for the angel of death to pass over Jewish homes during the plague of the first born. The only people in danger were first born males, the blood wasn't a help to other people in the family, and didn't serve as an atonement for the first born).

A more fitting prototype for Jesus would have been the Yom Kippur sacrifice, which was an atonement for the sins of all the people. It is interesting that according to Leviticus 16:10,21-22, the animal which effectuated the atonement for the sins of the nation was not killed, but sent live out into the desert. Again, the shedding of blood is not a sine qua non for atonement.

The Christian scriptures went to some great lengths to demonstrate that the atoning death of Jesus was predicated upon the Torah/Tanach. In the book of Hebrews, a verse from the book of Psalms is quoted as evidence that the sacrifice of Jesus was part of G-d's original plan for the world :

"Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME " (Hebrews 10:5 referring to Psalms 40:6).

In verse 10 of our passage from Hebrews, we are told that the body spoken of refers to the body of Jesus. However, the Christian scriptures took some great liberties in quoting from the book of Psalms, which never mentions a body being prepared:

"Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired; MY EARS YOU HAVE OPENED; Burnt offerings and sin offerings You have not required" (Psalm 40:6).

As we can see there is no body being prepared in Psalms 40:6 .

The author of Romans asserts that the Jewish scriptures spoke about the Messiah coming in order to eradicate sin from Israel:

"And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written,`The deliverer will come FROM Zion and REMOVE UNGODLINESS from Jacob'." (Romans 11:26 citing Isaiah 59:20)

However, checking the original source in Isaiah reveals the flawed foundation of the claim made in the Christian book of Romans.

"And a redeemer will come TO Zion, to those in Jacob WHO TURN FROM TRANSGRESSION , says the L-rd." (Isaiah 59:20)

Isaiah didn't teach that the Messiah's purpose is to remove sin; rather, he will come to the Jewish people when they show themselves worthy by turning away from sin. Big difference .

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT VICARIOUS ATONEMENT?

Is the idea that an innocent person can be killed instead of those who are guilty consistent with what the Bible teaches?

After the sin of the Golden Calf, G-d expressed His intention to destroy the Jewish people. Moses intercedes, and offers to die in their place. In response, G-d says "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book!" (Exodus 32:32-33).

Throughout the Bible, G-d says that one person cannot die for the sins of another:

"Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin" (Deuteronomy 24:16, II Kings 14:6).

"But everyone will die for his own sin; each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge" (Jeremiah 31:30).

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself" (Ezekiel 18:20).

"No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to G-d a ransom for him" (Psalms 49:7).

"So you shall not pollute the land in which you are; for blood pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who has shed it!" (Numbers 35:33).

Although Romans 4:5 says that Jesus justifies the ungodly, the Torah/Tanach teaches that :

"He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, both of them are an abomination to the L-rd" (Proverbs 17:15).

If indeed, Jesus came as the final sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world, why does the Tanach predict that the Temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices resumed durring the Messianic Age?

"Even those I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples." (Isaiah 56:7).

"From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones will bring My offerings." (Zephaniah 3:10)

"All the flocks of Kedar will be gathered together to you, the rams of Nebaioth will minister to you; they will go up with acceptance on My altar, and I shall glorify My glorious house." (Isaiah 60:7)

"And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever." (Ezekiel 37:26)

"And He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the L-rd offerings in righteousness. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasant to the L-rd, as in the days of old and as in former years." (Malachi 3:3-4)

"And every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the L-rd of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them." (Zechariah 14:21)

"And it shall be the princes part to provide the burnt offerings, the grain offerings, and the libations...to make atonement for the house of Israel." (Ezekiel 45:17)

The Christian claim that our sins can only be forgiven if blood is shed on our behalf also seems to limit the power of G-d. It's ludicrous to say that G-d`s ability to forgive us is dependent on anything. One of the most basic teachings in the Torah/Tanach is that since G-d is merciful, He often forgives us simply because He is merciful.

"Who is a G-d like You, WHO PARDONS INIQUITY and passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in unchanging love." (Micah 7:18;).

The L-RD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever. HE HATH NOT DEALT WITH US AFTER OUR SINS; NOR REWARDED US ACCORDING TO OUR INIQUITIES. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.(Psalm 103:7-18)

Even when we don't seek G-d appropriately, He has the ability to reach out to us with love and forgive us:

"Their heart was not steadfast toward Him, nor were they faithful in His covenant. BUT He, being compassionate, forgave their iniquity...REMEMBERING THAT THEY WERE BUT FLESH." (Psalms 78:36-39)

"You have not brought Me the sheep of your burnt offerings...or the fat of your sacrifices, but you have burdened Me with your sins...NEVERTHELESS, I will wipe out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." (Isaiah 43:23-25)

THE BIBLICAL VIEW OF ATONEMENT

One of the clearest indications that Christianity is off base in its insistence on the centrality of blood sacrifices is that none of the prophets speaks about it. There isn't one instance in the prophetic books where the Jewish people are told that in order to get right with G-d they need to get "covered by the blood". If that's the case, what is the fundamental teaching of the Torah/Tanach on the issue of atonement? What theme is reiterated time and again by the holy prophets in the Jewish Bible?

"That every man will turn from his evil way, then I will forgive their iniquity and their sin." (Jeremiah 36:3).

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, and let him return to the L-rd, and He will have compassion on him; and to our G-d, for He will ABUNDANTLY PARDON." (Isaiah 55:7).

"I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I did not hide; I said, `I will confess my transgressions to the L-rd', and You did forgive the guilt of my sin." (Psalm 32:5).

"And if My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray, and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (II Chronicles 7:14).

"By lovingkindness and truth iniquity is atoned for..." (Proverbs 16:6).

"If you return to G-d you will be restored; if you remove unrighteousness far from your tent...then you will delight in G-d..." (Job 22:23-27).

"Depart from evil, and do good, so you will abide forever." (Psalm 37:27, cf. Ezekiel 33, Jeremiah 26:13).

"Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts." (Zechariah 1:3)

The central teaching of the Bible is that only a break with our past and a sincere turning in repentance can restore our relationships with G-d. Even when sacrifices were offered, they in and of themselves didn't effect atonement. The sacrifice was part of the process, it helped bring us to the core of atonement which is achieved by TESHUVAH, returning to G-d by forsaking our evil ways and praying for forgiveness. One of the main teachings of the prophets was to chide Jewish people who thought that sacrifices were the essential element of atonement:

"What are your multiplied sacrifices to Me? says the L-rd. I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed cattle. And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs, or goats...Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from My sight. Cease to do evil, Learn to do good; seek justice, reprove the ruthless, defend the orphan, plead for the widow. Come let us reason together says the L-rd, `Though your sins are as scarlet, they will be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they will be like wool, if you consent and obey..." (Isaiah 1:11-18).

"The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the L-rd." (Proverbs 15:8).

"To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the L-rd than sacrifice." (Proverbs 21:3).

"For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, and in the knowledge of G-d rather than burnt offerings." (Hoseah 6:6).

"Has the L-rd as great a delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the L-rd? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken more than the fat of rams." (I Samuel 15:22).

"With what shall I come to the L-rd, and bow myself before the G-d on high? Shall I come to Him with burnt offerings, with yearling calves? Does the L-rd take delight in thousands of rams, in ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the L-rd require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your G-d." (Micah 6:6-8,cf. Amos 5:22- 24, Jeremiah 7, Psalm 69:31-32).

Since repentance, and not blood is the Biblical form of atonement, we now understand how in I Kings 8, Solomon explained that even if the Jewish people don't have access to the Temple, they still have access to G-d. This will illuminate a famous story found in the book of Jonah. G-d sends Jonah to the evil city of Ninveh to warn them of their impending destruction. Jonah doesn't come into the city and tell the people that unless they begin offering sacrifices they are doomed. Their response to his warnings is to repent: they fast, pray, and turn from their evil. What is G-d's response?

"When G-d saw their deeds that they turned from their wicked way, then G-d relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them, and He did not do it." (Jonah 3:10).

In similar fashion, Daniel advised king Nebuchadnezzar on how to atone for his transgressions:

"Therefore, O king, may my advice be pleasing to you: Redeem your sins by doing righteousness, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the poor." (Daniel 4:27).

This principle will also help explain a passage in the book of Hoseah. Hoseah was a prophet to the 10 northern tribes in the kingdom of Israel during a time when there was a civil war going on between them and the two tribes of the kingdom of Judah in the south. Because of the strife, the tribes up north couldn't get to the Temple in Jerusalem to offer sacrifices. Did this leave them with no way of atoning for their sins? The prophet advises:

"Return, O Israel, to the L-rd your G-d, For you have stumbled because of your iniquity. Take words with you and return to the L-rd. Say to Him, `Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously, for we will render as bullocks the offerings of our lips'." (Hoseah 14:1-2).

We are able to approach G-d directly with prayer, which is possible at all times; and G-d assures us that sincere prayer can achieve forgiveness for our sins:

"Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O L-rd, the G-d of my salvation. And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness. O L-rd, open my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Your praise. For You do not delight in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of G-d are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. These, O G-d, You will not despise." (Psalms 51:14-17, re:II Samuel 12:13).

"I will praise the name of G-d with a song, and will magnify Him with thanksgiving. This shall please the L-rd better than an ox or bullock that has horns and hoofs." (Psalm 69:30-31).

"For You, L-rd, are good, and READY TO FORGIVE , and abundant in lovingkindness to all who call upon You. Give ear, O L-rd to my prayer, and give heed to the voice of my supplications." (Psalm 86:5-6).

"
And listen to the supplications of Your servant and of Your people Israel, when they pray toward this place; hear from heaven Your dwelling place, hear and forgive." (II Chronicles 6:21).

Are Christians consistent with the Torah/Tenach when they claim that atonement is only possible with a blood sacrifice? Did the Rabbis just make up the idea that we can restore our relationship with G-d through prayer and repentance? YOU DECIDE!

HOW IS A PERSON SAVED TODAY ?
Missionary Encounter

How is a person saved today ? is the question I recently was asked by a young, obviously zealous Christian who tried to convert me to his brand of Christianity. When I replied that the Torah/Tenach "Old Testament" teaches that we can find the atonement needed for salvation through prayer, repentance and good deeds he scoffed at my answer by rolling up his eyes and nudding his head .

He tried to disprove my conclusion by quoting parts of three passages from the Torah/Tanach ( Hebrew Bible ) to prove his own contention that good deeds cannot atone for sin. The first two he mentioned were (Isaiah 64:5) which reads :

"..all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags..."

and (Psalm 14:3) which says : "...there are none who do good..."

I proceeded to show him where each of the two passages actually refers to Jews who were involved in what in Biblical times were considered heathen religious practices and beliefs. The reference in Isaiah 64:5, to "all our righteousness being like filthy rags" , is to those who "...burn incense upon the (altars of) bricks, and sit among the graves..." (Isaiah 65: 3,4) and otherwise engaged in religious practices which in Biblical times were considered heretical.

Similarly, the reference in Psalm 14:1 (and Psalm 53:4 which uses almost identical words) talks specifically of those who committed "abominable works," the word ABOMINABLE meaning heathen or pagan. For example, the word is found in the Bible where it reads :

"And he did very abominably in following idols..." ( 1st Kings 21:26).

It also is found in the Christian scriptures, which Christians call the "New Testament" , that says :

"(we) wrought the will of the gentiles when we walked in...abominable idolatries" (I Peter 4:3).

With a genuine look of pain in his face and the sound of utter frustration in his voice, my missionary friend asked me "So, tell me, just how does a Jew find salvation ?" I replied that a Jew finds salvation by first having faith in the G-d of Israel and loving him with all your heart and soul and living a life of repentance and good deeds in obedience to his commandments .

(loving G-d in thought and deed..Many Christians hate the word " deeds ". ) .

I told him the Torah/Tenach confirms this and suggested to him that he unwittingly had stumbled on the clue in the third Bible passage that he previously had given, namely, Ecclesiastes 7:20 which says:

"There is not a righteous person on earth who (only) does good and does not sin on occasion " (Masoritic Text)

Harvey Guthrie, Jr., Dean of the Episcopal Theological School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, explains that the context of this verse in his comments about Ecclesiastes 7:15-21, which includes verse 20. He says in his contribution to the
Interpreter's One Volume Commentary on the Bible that :

"it has to be recognized that reserve is necessary in imputing unqualified righteousness to any one act or position ."

In other words, he says that the Biblical notion of
righteousness is not one of unqualified good versus evil, but of "relative good" versus relative evil, to use his words.

( Ecclesiastes 7:16-19 ) :

"Do not be over-virtuous or play too hard the sage. Why drive yourself too hard? Do not be wicked to the excess and do not be a fool. Why die before your time? The best thing is to hold the one and not let go the other for BOTH OF THESE WILL HAPPEN TO THE G-D FEARING MAN."

Finally, Ecclesiates 7:29 summarizes the whole section, namely, that "God made man righteous" but not perfect.

Accordingly, I explained, (Psalm 65:4) tells us that :

"though our faults overpower us, You G-d cover our sin."

And (Proverbs 16:6, 14:22) teaches that G-d's :

"mercy and truth atone for sin..." and that such "...mercy and truth shall be for those that devise good," .

We should consider (Hosea 14:2) which rhetorically petitions G-d to :

"forgive ALL (our) sins (and) accept that which is good (about us); and we will give the offerings of our lips in exchange for bullocks (sacrificial animals)."

The view that sacrifice is not needed to achieve salvation is also found in

(Micah 6:7,8) which says:

"ONLY act justly, love mercy and walk with humility before G-d." And this thought is echoed in (Isaiah 43:23-25 ):

"...you have not... honored me (God) with your sacrifices ...(Nevertheless) I will not remember your sins."

The christian Doctrine which sais G-d had to kill someone to forgive others is an erroneous unabrahamic concept which is off base with the Jewish scriptures .

The translation and Interpretation of the above verses are confirmed by Dr. Milton Fisher, President of the Christian Reformed Episcopal Seminary, Philadelphia, and Professor of "Old Testament" therein, and in numerous written sources, including:

The Oxford Annotated Bible:

Revised Standard Version of the Holy Bible;

The New American Bible (P.J. Kennedy & Sons);

The Septuagint with Apocrypha: Greek and English (Zondervan Publishing House);

The Holy Scriptures (Jewish Publication Society);

DOES G-D DEMAND PERFECTION ?

Many Christian missionaries tell us that G-d expects us to be perfect !! They quote Psalm 15:1 as proof of this belief.

(Psalm 15:1) says, using a Christian English translation of Torah/Tenach :

"Who may live on your holy hill? He whose walk is BLAMELESS and does what is righteous, he who speaks the truth from his heart and has no slander in his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his fellow man, who despises a vile man, but honor those who fear the L-RD, who keeps his oath even when it hurts, and lends his money without usury and does not accept bribes..."

Christian Missionaries say :

"...God DOES require perfection.!!...Have you kept all of this small list that David claims is required? The word BLAMELESS, is defined as being without fault !!! "

In other words,Christian missionaries see this as meaning we have to be perfect. However, a look at the Hebrew shows that this is not the case.

The word translated here as "blameless" is tamim (tav-mem-yud-mem sofit). It is found in many other verses, and looking at it in context elsewhere can help to elucidate its meaning.

From the Torah :

Genesis 6:9 "These are the generations of Noah; Noah was a just man and perfect [tamim] in his generations, and Noah walked with G-d." Since Noach was human, he was not perfect, but yet he was "tamim". If Noach can be "TAMIM", so can I, so can any of his decendents (everyone).

From the Tanach ( Prophets ) :

(2nd Samuel 22:26.) "With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful, and with the upright( TAMIM ) man You will show Yourself upright [tatamim]"

Appearently, in addition to Noach and David (see Psalm 18 below), there are other tamim people.

From the Writings :

Psalm 18:

1. "To the chief Musician of David, the servant of the L-RD, who spoke to the L-RD the words of this song in the day that the L-RD saved him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul;"

The stage is set, the Psalm is about David, a man who was not perfect, and yet, it says in this Psalm 18 : verese 22- 24) :

"For I have kept the ways of the L-RD, and have not wickedly departed from my G-d. For all His judgments were before me, and I did not put away His statutes from me. I was also upright [TAMIM] before him, and I kept myself from my iniquity.. Therefore has the L-RD recompenses me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in His eyesight."

David was capable of being tamim, so are you, so am I. (See also 2 Samuel 22:24 for the same statement about being tamim as verse 24 of this Psalm)

(Job 12:4.) "I have become a laughing stock to my friend; I, who called upon G-d, and he answered me. A just, blameless [TAMIM] man is a laughing stock."

Job, a non-Jew, is "tamim" so can I be, so can you be. wether you are a Jew or a Muslim or a Christian ( If they stop worshiping flesh )

What does G-d Require, seeing that He does not require perfection?

Now that we know that G-d does not require us to be perfect, what does He require? Michah 6:8 says it best:

"It has been told you, O' man, what is good, and what the L-RD does require of you, only to do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your G-d".

We who are Jews do this be following the eternal covenant G-d has made with us and Muslims do this by walking humbly with the One true G-d of Avraham ( Tawheed / Salat / Fasting / Zakat ) , the Muslim that is true to these four things will stand among the righteouss of the Children of Israel in the world to come .

G-d is forgiving and merciful, He forgives us when we fall short of the mark. He expects us to strive to do good, but knows that we are but human and imperfect.

Psalm 32:5 "Then I acknowledged my sin to You; I did not cover up my guilt... and You forgave the guilt of my sin."

Proverb 21:21 "He who strives to do good and kind deeds
Attains life, success, and honor"

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Subject : Re: Re: Forgiveness

Comments:
:
:
: Table of Content :

: 1) Original Sin ?

: 2) No Blood , No Forgiveness ?

: 3) How is a person saved today ? ( Missionary encounter)

: 4) Does G-d Demand Perfection?

:
:
: ORGINAL SIN ?

: The key to Christian and especially Missionary Christian doctrine is the concept of Original Sin, namely that all mankind is condemned to death and eternal torture in Hell because of the sin of the original two people who disobeyed G-d and ate of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

: The teaching goes that G-d cursed them and all future generations and their act introduced death into the world.
: And there is nothing we can do about this inherited curse of our own accord. We are condemned from the moment of our birth and need a savior to rescue us. Left to our own devices we are literally, "Damned if we do and damned if we don't."

:
: Okay, let's follow the golden rule of Torah study:

:
: don't quote a single sentence "proof text", read the whole section. What really happened here? (Please read Genesis Chapters 2 and 3. Come on, it just takes a few minutes.)

: Now off to the first curse, the snake. Notice verse 15, Chapter 3, "I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and hers...." [1]

: Clearly the curse directed at the snake is eternal, given this reference to future generations. And it is a curse as verse 14 says, "Because you did this, more cursed shall you be..."

: Now look at the sixteenth verse, the alleged "curse" of the woman. Do you see the word "curse" there anywhere? No, because it is not there. The woman was punished for her acts but not cursed.

: On to Adam (Chapter 3, verses 17 -20). The word "cursed" appears in this section, right? Yes, but look at verse 17, "Cursed be the ground because of you." Not "Cursed be you." [italics mine] Big difference.

: Adam was going to have to farm (work hard) for a living but absolutely no curse was applied to him directly. It didn't happen. Period.

: So we don't have a curse. Wasn't the punishment eternal?

: Check again. I've pointed out the reference to future generations in the curse of the snake. There is absolutely no reference to future generations in the punishments of Adam and Eve.

: Wasn't this somehow implied?

:
: Well, look at some other sections. When God meant something to be eternal, He said so. Look at Chapter 17, verse 7 which gives the time span of G-d's covenant with Abraham, "I will maintain My covenant between Me and you, and your offspring to come, throughout the ages, to be your G-d to you and to your offspring to come." So G-d was perfectly capable of assigning a time frame, even an eternal time frame, to His actions when He wanted to. Obviously, a Supreme Being Who made the eternal nature of His blessing through Abraham so clear would have made the eternal nature of any curse through Adam equally clear.

:
: But can't we prove the existence of some sort of eternal curse since Adam and Eve brought death to all mankind?

: Look at G-d's pronouncement of Adam's "death sentence" in verse 17, "For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."

: So Adam and Eve were created with eternal life and then cursed with death, right? Surely their action is the reason we all must die?

: Wrong . Adam and Eve were born mortal. Note verse 17 does not says "Dust you have become"; it says "Dust you are." They never had eternal life in the first place. Then check out verses 22 through 25. G-d says (presumably to the angels) regarding Adam, "What if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever?" In other words there was an action which Adam had not yet performed which was required for Adam to sustain his Body and recieve an eternal nature.

: And what did G-d do after this statement? He drove Adam out of the garden and placed an angel with a flaming sword to guard the tree of life. In other words, Adam never had an immortal nature to lose. He was simply placed in a position where his mortal nature continued.

: let me explain it again :

: G-d placed an angel to guard the three of life to prevent Adam and Eve from eating from it for the simple reason that if they had begun to eat from this tree their mortal natures would not have effected them . No Tree of Life = No imortality . We never had an imortal nature .

:
: The bottom line is that there never was any curse of original sin. And there was therefore never any need for anyone to die for us to remove such a curse. We are each responsible for our own actions and our own individual relationship with G-d.

: NO BLOOD , NO FORGIVENESS ?

: One of the cornerstones of Christian theology is that the only way to achieve atonement for sins is through the offering of a sacrifice whose blood is shed in our place. The Christian scriptures makes this very clear in Hebrews 9:22 "...without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Is this idea consistent with the teachings of the Torah (Hebrew Scriptures )?, or does the Torah and Christian scriptures diverge on this issue? Christians generally insist that the absolute need for a vicarious blood sacrifice is rooted in the Torah, and cite as proof Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul."

: As a Christian, you have probably heard many sermons on the topic of atonement, and have undoubtedly read many studies which support the contention that there is no atonement without blood. Of course you are also aware that this is a teaching which is not shared by Jews ( nor Muslims ). Have you ever wondered how they could reject what to you seems so clear? This study has been prepared to give you the opportunity to consider a different perspective on the vital issue of atonement.

: ANOTHER LOOK AT LEVITICUS 17:11

:
: You might remember that in junior high school, we were often given an assignment to write the title for a story; what is the central idea of a passage. Let's look at Leviticus 17:11 in context:

: "And whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among you, who consumes any blood, I will set My face against that person who consumes blood, and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul. Therefore, I say to the children of Israel, `No one among you shall consume blood, nor shall any stranger who sojourns among you consume blood.'"

: What should immediately be apparent is that the topic of this passage is not how to secure atonement from sins, but the prohibition against consuming blood. We are told parenthetically that the reason for this prohibition is that the blood contains the vitality of the animal (cf. Genesis 9:4, Deuteronomy 12:23) and consequently, when we bring an animal sacrifice, its blood serves as the atoning agent, and not another part of its body.

: let's consider another point about what is, and what is not being said in Leviticus 17:11. The passage does say that since blood symbolizes the life of the animal, G-d has given it to us as a means of atoning for our sins. But does the verse clearly teach that it is the only means G-d has provided to make atonement? As with any other Biblical study, we will have to examine this question in light of the Bible as a whole. But for now, we should note that our verse merely says that blood can serve as an atonement. It is a means of atonement, but by no means the only form of atonement.

: In the Torah, blood sacrifices were not the only path to atonement; there were other ways to achieve forgiveness. For example :

: * incense served to atone for the people in Numbers 16:46-47,

: * giving charity is described in Exodus 30:15-16 and Numbers 31:50 as `making atonement for your souls' - the same expression as in Leviticus 17:11.

:
: In reality, blood sacrifices were the least effective of all the means of atonement mentioned in the Bible. One important limitation to the effectiveness of sacrifices is that they were only brought for unintentional sins (ie. someone didn't know that kindling a fire was prohibited on the Sabbath, or they were aware of this, but thought it was Sunday when kindling the fire). Sacrifices did not help to atone for sins that were done intentionally (Leviticus 4, and Numbers 15:22-31).

: Examining the Christian interpretation of Leviticus 17:11 generates some serious problems. What happens if someone can't afford to purchase an animal for his sin offering? Is it possible that G-d would institute a system of atonement that could only be used by the wealthy? The Torah took this into account and allowed the poor person to bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons if he couldn't afford a lamb (Leviticus 5:7). However, what if someone was so destitute, that he couldn't afford even these small birds? :

: "But if his means are insufficient for two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then for his offering for that which he has sinned, he shall bring the tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall not put oil on it or place incense on it, for it is a sin offering." (Leviticus 5:11)

: Since flour could be used for a sin offering, it is clear that blood was not a prerequisite for atonement. Another example will drive home the point. The proposition that only blood sacrifices could secure atonement creates a dilemma. Could it be that G-d would set up a system of atonement that wouldn't be available to all people at all times?

:
: While the Temple stood, sacrifices did serve as part of the atonement process. But what is the fate of Jewish people who don't have access to the Temple? What were the Jewish people supposed to do after 586 BCE when the first Temple was destroyed and they were exiled to Babylon? What did the Jewish people do in the times of the Macabees when the Syrian-Greeks were in control of the Temple and didn't allow sacrifices?

: Christians erroneously claim that Rabbinic Judaism came up with novel, non-Biblical measures to deal with atonement after the destruction of the Temple by the Romans in 70 CE. Actually, it wasn't Talmudic innovation at all- the Bible anticipated the possibility of the cessation of sacrifices. When King Solomon finally laid the finishing touches on the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, he inaugurated it with a moving dedication speech (I Kings 8; II Chronicles 6). In this lengthy speech of almost 50 verses, you will notice that Solomon doesn't speak about sacrifices at all! This omission would be strange if the most crucial part of the Temple were the sacrifices. Actually, the central focus of the Temple was the Holy Ark (Exodus 25) containing the Torah. The Temple was first and foremost a symbol of G-d's presence and revelation to the Children of Israel (I Kings 8:13, Exodus 25:8).

: Towards the end of his speech, Solomon deals with the possibility of the Jewish people being denied access to the Temple in the eventuality that they are exiled from the land of Israel.

: "If they return to You with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their enemies who have taken them captive, and pray to You toward their land which You have given to their fathers, the city which You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your name; then hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven Your dwelling place, and maintain their cause, and forgive Your people who have sinned against You and all their transgressions which they have transgressed against You..." (I Kings 8:46-50).

: This seminal passage puts the spotlight on the Christian misunderstanding of Leviticus 17:11. The Bible is clearly teaching that sacrifices weren't necessary in order to atone for sins. Prayer and repentance are cited here as effective means for securing atonement. Certainly, when the Temple stood, and one could afford an animal, a sacrifice was brought as part of the atonement process for unintentional sins. Leviticus 17:11 teaches that when we bring such an animal as a sacrifice, we aren't allowed to consume its blood, because as the life force, it is the part of the animal that affects our atonement.

: Christian dogma holds that the crucifixion of Jesus at Calvary served as the final atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. Christianity insists that this is not just a Christian innovation, but reflects the requirements of the Torah, and tries to establish this by pointing to Leviticus 17:11 as the key to atonement in the Tanach ( "Torah" is the first 5 books of Moses and "Tanach " are the books of Prophets like "Isaiah ,Jeremiah etc" )

:
: However, if Leviticus 17:11 is examined, it will be clear that Jesus could never serve as an atoning sacrifice. Obviously, the shedding of blood by cuting my finger or killing my cat won't fulfill the Biblical requirements for atonement. The Torah delineates how sacrifices are to be brought.

:
: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you UPON THE ALTAR to make an atonement for your souls..."

:
: Clearly, not any spilled blood is accepted by the Torah as a sacrifice. Jesus' crucifixion may qualify as an atonement according to the Pagan Greeks and the Christian scriptures, but since his blood was not offered on the altar, it is not in line with what the Torah mandates.

: There are actually several other factors which would render the crucifixion of Jesus an unacceptable sacrifice. According to the Biblical rules in Leviticus, all sacrifices had to be offered by a Priest who descends from Aaron. This was not the case in the death of Jesus, who was crucified by Roman soldiers .

:
: Additionally, Biblical law prohibited any sacrifice which was blemished or maimed (Leviticus 22:19-21). However, prior to his crucifixion, Jesus was whipped and beaten (Matthew 27:26, Mark 15:19, John 19:3) which would render him unfit .

: Frequently, Christians react to this line of reasoning by protesting that it is improper to be so literal, and that Jesus' death was more of a symbolic or spiritual sacrifice. This would be fine if the Bible provided for such ethereal offerings, but such is not the case. The Christian scriptures , however, does insist that Jesus was a real sacrifice, literally fulfilling the Biblical requirements of such:

:
: "But coming to Jesus, when they saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs...in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled: `Not a bone of him shall be broken.'" (John 19:33-36)

: The Gospel of John portrays Jesus as the Paschal lamb which was not supposed to have any of its bones broken (Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12). Since the author of John insists that Jesus was a real sacrifice to the extent that the Biblical rules of the Passover were fulfilled in him, we can't dismiss the problems cited above as legalistic nit-picking.

: One wonders why the Christian scriptures chose to type Jesus as a Paschal lamb rather than the sacrifice for the Day of Atonement. We know from Exodus 12 that the Passover sacrifice did not serve as an atonement for sins, it commemorates the exodus from Egypt. (Even when the lamb was slaughtered in Egypt and its blood smeared on the doorposts, it did not serve to atone for the sins of anyone. It was a sign for the angel of death to pass over Jewish homes during the plague of the first born. The only people in danger were first born males, the blood wasn't a help to other people in the family, and didn't serve as an atonement for the first born).

: A more fitting prototype for Jesus would have been the Yom Kippur sacrifice, which was an atonement for the sins of all the people. It is interesting that according to Leviticus 16:10,21-22, the animal which effectuated the atonement for the sins of the nation was not killed, but sent live out into the desert. Again, the shedding of blood is not a sine qua non for atonement.

: The Christian scriptures went to some great lengths to demonstrate that the atoning death of Jesus was predicated upon the Torah/Tanach. In the book of Hebrews, a verse from the book of Psalms is quoted as evidence that the sacrifice of Jesus was part of G-d's original plan for the world :

: "Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME " (Hebrews 10:5 referring to Psalms 40:6).

:
: In verse 10 of our passage from Hebrews, we are told that the body spoken of refers to the body of Jesus. However, the Christian scriptures took some great liberties in quoting from the book of Psalms, which never mentions a body being prepared:

: "Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired; MY EARS YOU HAVE OPENED; Burnt offerings and sin offerings You have not required" (Psalm 40:6).

:
: As we can see there is no body being prepared in Psalms 40:6 .

: The author of Romans asserts that the Jewish scriptures spoke about the Messiah coming in order to eradicate sin from Israel:

: "And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written,`The deliverer will come FROM Zion and REMOVE UNGODLINESS from Jacob'." (Romans 11:26 citing Isaiah 59:20)

: However, checking the original source in Isaiah reveals the flawed foundation of the claim made in the Christian book of Romans.

: "And a redeemer will come TO Zion, to those in Jacob WHO TURN FROM TRANSGRESSION , says the L-rd." (Isaiah 59:20)

:
: Isaiah didn't teach that the Messiah's purpose is to remove sin; rather, he will come to the Jewish people when they show themselves worthy by turning away from sin. Big difference .

: WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT VICARIOUS ATONEMENT?

:
: Is the idea that an innocent person can be killed instead of those who are guilty consistent with what the Bible teaches?

:
: After the sin of the Golden Calf, G-d expressed His intention to destroy the Jewish people. Moses intercedes, and offers to die in their place. In response, G-d says "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book!" (Exodus 32:32-33).

: Throughout the Bible, G-d says that one person cannot die for the sins of another:

: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin" (Deuteronomy 24:16, II Kings 14:6).

:
: "But everyone will die for his own sin; each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge" (Jeremiah 31:30).

: "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself" (Ezekiel 18:20).

:
: "No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to G-d a ransom for him" (Psalms 49:7).

:
: "So you shall not pollute the land in which you are; for blood pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who has shed it!" (Numbers 35:33).

: Although Romans 4:5 says that Jesus justifies the ungodly, the Torah/Tanach teaches that :

: "He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, both of them are an abomination to the L-rd" (Proverbs 17:15).

:
: If indeed, Jesus came as the final sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world, why does the Tanach predict that the Temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices resumed durring the Messianic Age?

:
: "Even those I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples." (Isaiah 56:7).

: "From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones will bring My offerings." (Zephaniah 3:10)

:
: "All the flocks of Kedar will be gathered together to you, the rams of Nebaioth will minister to you; they will go up with acceptance on My altar, and I shall glorify My glorious house." (Isaiah 60:7)

:
: "And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever." (Ezekiel 37:26)

:
: "And He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the L-rd offerings in righteousness. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasant to the L-rd, as in the days of old and as in former years." (Malachi 3:3-4)

: "And every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the L-rd of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them." (Zechariah 14:21)

: "And it shall be the princes part to provide the burnt offerings, the grain offerings, and the libations...to make atonement for the house of Israel." (Ezekiel 45:17)

:
: The Christian claim that our sins can only be forgiven if blood is shed on our behalf also seems to limit the power of G-d. It's ludicrous to say that G-d`s ability to forgive us is dependent on anything. One of the most basic teachings in the Torah/Tanach is that since G-d is merciful, He often forgives us simply because He is merciful.

:
: "Who is a G-d like You, WHO PARDONS INIQUITY and passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in unchanging love." (Micah 7:18;).

:
: The L-RD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever. HE HATH NOT DEALT WITH US AFTER OUR SINS; NOR REWARDED US ACCORDING TO OUR INIQUITIES. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.(Psalm 103:7-18)

: Even when we don't seek G-d appropriately, He has the ability to reach out to us with love and forgive us:

: "Their heart was not steadfast toward Him, nor were they faithful in His covenant. BUT He, being compassionate, forgave their iniquity...REMEMBERING THAT THEY WERE BUT FLESH." (Psalms 78:36-39)

: "You have not brought Me the sheep of your burnt offerings...or the fat of your sacrifices, but you have burdened Me with your sins...NEVERTHELESS, I will wipe out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." (Isaiah 43:23-25)

:
: THE BIBLICAL VIEW OF ATONEMENT

: One of the clearest indications that Christianity is off base in its insistence on the centrality of blood sacrifices is that none of the prophets speaks about it. There isn't one instance in the prophetic books where the Jewish people are told that in order to get right with G-d they need to get "covered by the blood". If that's the case, what is the fundamental teaching of the Torah/Tanach on the issue of atonement? What theme is reiterated time and again by the holy prophets in the Jewish Bible?

:
: "That every man will turn from his evil way, then I will forgive their iniquity and their sin." (Jeremiah 36:3).

: "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, and let him return to the L-rd, and He will have compassion on him; and to our G-d, for He will ABUNDANTLY PARDON." (Isaiah 55:7).

: "I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I did not hide; I said, `I will confess my transgressions to the L-rd', and You did forgive the guilt of my sin." (Psalm 32:5).

: "And if My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray, and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (II Chronicles 7:14).

:
: "By lovingkindness and truth iniquity is atoned for..." (Proverbs 16:6).

:
: "If you return to G-d you will be restored; if you remove unrighteousness far from your tent...then you will delight in G-d..." (Job 22:23-27).

: "Depart from evil, and do good, so you will abide forever." (Psalm 37:27, cf. Ezekiel 33, Jeremiah 26:13).

:
: "Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts." (Zechariah 1:3)

: The central teaching of the Bible is that only a break with our past and a sincere turning in repentance can restore our relationships with G-d. Even when sacrifices were offered, they in and of themselves didn't effect atonement. The sacrifice was part of the process, it helped bring us to the core of atonement which is achieved by TESHUVAH, returning to G-d by forsaking our evil ways and praying for forgiveness. One of the main teachings of the prophets was to chide Jewish people who thought that sacrifices were the essential element of atonement:

: "What are your multiplied sacrifices to Me? says the L-rd. I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed cattle. And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs, or goats...Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from My sight. Cease to do evil, Learn to do good; seek justice, reprove the ruthless, defend the orphan, plead for the widow. Come let us reason together says the L-rd, `Though your sins are as scarlet, they will be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they will be like wool, if you consent and obey..." (Isaiah 1:11-18).

: "The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the L-rd." (Proverbs 15:8).

:
: "To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the L-rd than sacrifice." (Proverbs 21:3).

: "For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, and in the knowledge of G-d rather than burnt offerings." (Hoseah 6:6).

:
: "Has the L-rd as great a delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the L-rd? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken more than the fat of rams." (I Samuel 15:22).

:
: "With what shall I come to the L-rd, and bow myself before the G-d on high? Shall I come to Him with burnt offerings, with yearling calves? Does the L-rd take delight in thousands of rams, in ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the L-rd require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your G-d." (Micah 6:6-8,cf. Amos 5:22- 24, Jeremiah 7, Psalm 69:31-32).

: Since repentance, and not blood is the Biblical form of atonement, we now understand how in I Kings 8, Solomon explained that even if the Jewish people don't have access to the Temple, they still have access to G-d. This will illuminate a famous story found in the book of Jonah. G-d sends Jonah to the evil city of Ninveh to warn them of their impending destruction. Jonah doesn't come into the city and tell the people that unless they begin offering sacrifices they are doomed. Their response to his warnings is to repent: they fast, pray, and turn from their evil. What is G-d's response?

: "When G-d saw their deeds that they turned from their wicked way, then G-d relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them, and He did not do it." (Jonah 3:10).

:
: In similar fashion, Daniel advised king Nebuchadnezzar on how to atone for his transgressions:

:
: "Therefore, O king, may my advice be pleasing to you: Redeem your sins by doing righteousness, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the poor." (Daniel 4:27).

: This principle will also help explain a passage in the book of Hoseah. Hoseah was a prophet to the 10 northern tribes in the kingdom of Israel during a time when there was a civil war going on between them and the two tribes of the kingdom of Judah in the south. Because of the strife, the tribes up north couldn't get to the Temple in Jerusalem to offer sacrifices. Did this leave them with no way of atoning for their sins? The prophet advises:

: "Return, O Israel, to the L-rd your G-d, For you have stumbled because of your iniquity. Take words with you and return to the L-rd. Say to Him, `Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously, for we will render as bullocks the offerings of our lips'." (Hoseah 14:1-2).

: We are able to approach G-d directly with prayer, which is possible at all times; and G-d assures us that sincere prayer can achieve forgiveness for our sins:

: "Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O L-rd, the G-d of my salvation. And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness. O L-rd, open my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Your praise. For You do not delight in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of G-d are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. These, O G-d, You will not despise." (Psalms 51:14-17, re:II Samuel 12:13).

:
: "I will praise the name of G-d with a song, and will magnify Him with thanksgiving. This shall please the L-rd better than an ox or bullock that has horns and hoofs." (Psalm 69:30-31).

:
: "For You, L-rd, are good, and READY TO FORGIVE , and abundant in lovingkindness to all who call upon You. Give ear, O L-rd to my prayer, and give heed to the voice of my supplications." (Psalm 86:5-6).

: "
: And listen to the supplications of Your servant and of Your people Israel, when they pray toward this place; hear from heaven Your dwelling place, hear and forgive." (II Chronicles 6:21).

:
: Are Christians consistent with the Torah/Tenach when they claim that atonement is only possible with a blood sacrifice? Did the Rabbis just make up the idea that we can restore our relationship with G-d through prayer and repentance? YOU DECIDE!

:
: HOW IS A PERSON SAVED TODAY ?
: Missionary Encounter

:
: How is a person saved today ? is the question I recently was asked by a young, obviously zealous Christian who tried to convert me to his brand of Christianity. When I replied that the Torah/Tenach "Old Testament" teaches that we can find the atonement needed for salvation through prayer, repentance and good deeds he scoffed at my answer by rolling up his eyes and nudding his head .

: He tried to disprove my conclusion by quoting parts of three passages from the Torah/Tanach ( Hebrew Bible ) to prove his own contention that good deeds cannot atone for sin. The first two he mentioned were (Isaiah 64:5) which reads :

: "..all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags..."

: and (Psalm 14:3) which says : "...there are none who do good..."
:
: I proceeded to show him where each of the two passages actually refers to Jews who were involved in what in Biblical times were considered heathen religious practices and beliefs. The reference in Isaiah 64:5, to "all our righteousness being like filthy rags" , is to those who "...burn incense upon the (altars of) bricks, and sit among the graves..." (Isaiah 65: 3,4) and otherwise engaged in religious practices which in Biblical times were considered heretical.

:
: Similarly, the reference in Psalm 14:1 (and Psalm 53:4 which uses almost identical words) talks specifically of those who committed "abominable works," the word ABOMINABLE meaning heathen or pagan. For example, the word is found in the Bible where it reads :

: "And he did very abominably in following idols..." ( 1st Kings 21:26).

:
: It also is found in the Christian scriptures, which Christians call the "New Testament" , that says :

: "(we) wrought the will of the gentiles when we walked in...abominable idolatries" (I Peter 4:3).

:
: With a genuine look of pain in his face and the sound of utter frustration in his voice, my missionary friend asked me "So, tell me, just how does a Jew find salvation ?" I replied that a Jew finds salvation by first having faith in the G-d of Israel and loving him with all your heart and soul and living a life of repentance and good deeds in obedience to his commandments .

: (loving G-d in thought and deed..Many Christians hate the word " deeds ". ) .

:
: I told him the Torah/Tenach confirms this and suggested to him that he unwittingly had stumbled on the clue in the third Bible passage that he previously had given, namely, Ecclesiastes 7:20 which says:

: "There is not a righteous person on earth who (only) does good and does not sin on occasion " (Masoritic Text)

:
: Harvey Guthrie, Jr., Dean of the Episcopal Theological School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, explains that the context of this verse in his comments about Ecclesiastes 7:15-21, which includes verse 20. He says in his contribution to the
: Interpreter's One Volume Commentary on the Bible that :

: "it has to be recognized that reserve is necessary in imputing unqualified righteousness to any one act or position ."

: In other words, he says that the Biblical notion of
: righteousness is not one of unqualified good versus evil, but of "relative good" versus relative evil, to use his words.

:
: ( Ecclesiastes 7:16-19 ) :

: "Do not be over-virtuous or play too hard the sage. Why drive yourself too hard? Do not be wicked to the excess and do not be a fool. Why die before your time? The best thing is to hold the one and not let go the other for BOTH OF THESE WILL HAPPEN TO THE G-D FEARING MAN."

:
: Finally, Ecclesiates 7:29 summarizes the whole section, namely, that "God made man righteous" but not perfect.

:
: Accordingly, I explained, (Psalm 65:4) tells us that :

: "though our faults overpower us, You G-d cover our sin."

:
: And (Proverbs 16:6, 14:22) teaches that G-d's :

: "mercy and truth atone for sin..." and that such "...mercy and truth shall be for those that devise good," .

:
: We should consider (Hosea 14:2) which rhetorically petitions G-d to :

: "forgive ALL (our) sins (and) accept that which is good (about us); and we will give the offerings of our lips in exchange for bullocks (sacrificial animals)."

: The view that sacrifice is not needed to achieve salvation is also found in

:
: (Micah 6:7,8) which says:

: "ONLY act justly, love mercy and walk with humility before G-d." And this thought is echoed in (Isaiah 43:23-25 ):

: "...you have not... honored me (God) with your sacrifices ...(Nevertheless) I will not remember your sins."

: The christian Doctrine which sais G-d had to kill someone to forgive others is an erroneous unabrahamic concept which is off base with the Jewish scriptures .
:

: The translation and Interpretation of the above verses are confirmed by Dr. Milton Fisher, President of the Christian Reformed Episcopal Seminary, Philadelphia, and Professor of "Old Testament" therein, and in numerous written sources, including:

: The Oxford Annotated Bible:

: Revised Standard Version of the Holy Bible;

: The New American Bible (P.J. Kennedy & Sons);

: The Septuagint with Apocrypha: Greek and English (Zondervan Publishing House);

: The Holy Scriptures (Jewish Publication Society);
:

: DOES G-D DEMAND PERFECTION ?

: Many Christian missionaries tell us that G-d expects us to be perfect !! They quote Psalm 15:1 as proof of this belief.

: (Psalm 15:1) says, using a Christian English translation of Torah/Tenach :

: "Who may live on your holy hill? He whose walk is BLAMELESS and does what is righteous, he who speaks the truth from his heart and has no slander in his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his fellow man, who despises a vile man, but honor those who fear the L-RD, who keeps his oath even when it hurts, and lends his money without usury and does not accept bribes..."

: Christian Missionaries say :

: "...God DOES require perfection.!!...Have you kept all of this small list that David claims is required? The word BLAMELESS, is defined as being without fault !!! "

:
: In other words,Christian missionaries see this as meaning we have to be perfect. However, a look at the Hebrew shows that this is not the case.

: The word translated here as "blameless" is tamim (tav-mem-yud-mem sofit). It is found in many other verses, and looking at it in context elsewhere can help to elucidate its meaning.

:
: From the Torah :

: Genesis 6:9 "These are the generations of Noah; Noah was a just man and perfect [tamim] in his generations, and Noah walked with G-d." Since Noach was human, he was not perfect, but yet he was "tamim". If Noach can be "TAMIM", so can I, so can any of his decendents (everyone).

: From the Tanach ( Prophets ) :

: (2nd Samuel 22:26.) "With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful, and with the upright( TAMIM ) man You will show Yourself upright [tatamim]"

: Appearently, in addition to Noach and David (see Psalm 18 below), there are other tamim people.

:
: From the Writings :

:
: Psalm 18:

: 1. "To the chief Musician of David, the servant of the L-RD, who spoke to the L-RD the words of this song in the day that the L-RD saved him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul;"

:
: The stage is set, the Psalm is about David, a man who was not perfect, and yet, it says in this Psalm 18 : verese 22- 24) :

:
: "For I have kept the ways of the L-RD, and have not wickedly departed from my G-d. For all His judgments were before me, and I did not put away His statutes from me. I was also upright [TAMIM] before him, and I kept myself from my iniquity.. Therefore has the L-RD recompenses me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in His eyesight."

:
: David was capable of being tamim, so are you, so am I. (See also 2 Samuel 22:24 for the same statement about being tamim as verse 24 of this Psalm)

:
: (Job 12:4.) "I have become a laughing stock to my friend; I, who called upon G-d, and he answered me. A just, blameless [TAMIM] man is a laughing stock."

:
: Job, a non-Jew, is "tamim" so can I be, so can you be. wether you are a Jew or a Muslim or a Christian ( If they stop worshiping flesh )

:
: What does G-d Require, seeing that He does not require perfection?

: Now that we know that G-d does not require us to be perfect, what does He require? Michah 6:8 says it best:

:
: "It has been told you, O' man, what is good, and what the L-RD does require of you, only to do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your G-d".

:
: We who are Jews do this be following the eternal covenant G-d has made with us and Muslims do this by walking humbly with the One true G-d of Avraham ( Tawheed / Salat / Fasting / Zakat ) , the Muslim that is true to these four things will stand among the righteouss of the Children of Israel in the world to come .

: G-d is forgiving and merciful, He forgives us when we fall short of the mark. He expects us to strive to do good, but knows that we are but human and imperfect.

: Psalm 32:5 "Then I acknowledged my sin to You; I did not cover up my guilt... and You forgave the guilt of my sin."

: Proverb 21:21 "He who strives to do good and kind deeds
: Attains life, success, and honor"

:
:

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